Triple Triad Time Limit Too Short

[Niwashi]

I think you're doing something wrong if you really think that, like needlessly over-complicating the game. Like I said, at first it's complicated... but there's set patterns.

You're confusing strategizing a game with memorizing it. That you can break the system isn't a valid reason for prohibiting people who want to from playing it for real. If played correctly, there should be no difference in your chances the first time you encounter an unfamiliar NPC from the 100th time you repeat the same match with him (other than by upgrading your own deck or your skill in the meantime). Currently, the prevailing approach (because it's the only one the time limits allow), is essentially to cheat, manipulating the game based off memorizing the software's pattern logic. We should be allowed to instead choose moves based on the strategy of the Triple Triad game itself and its assorted rules.

Single digit numbers are a lot more user friendly than chess pieces in noticing probability and potential, partly due to the fact it's literally what it is... not a whole lot more than that (like meaning behind the number and various ways use it doesn't really exist, since 1 is always 1, even when descension rule is in play, 1 is still 1, exception being that it represents a dominant number now). If anything, the primary strategy surrounds rules like Plus, to lure out certain cards. The number you use isn't too relevant, in that most cases it won't matter if you use a "1" or "2" as a low card number to lure the NPC into a trap.

You sort of started arguing against your own point there, but anyway... Chess pieces are far simpler and more straightforward. In chess, a knight is always a knight and always moves the way a knight does. A rook is always a rook and always moves the way a rook does. Furthermore, you always know that each player will have exactly two of each of them. The rules are fixed and unchanging, and so are the pieces. In TT, the way a given card "moves" (which in this case means what effect it has) varies according to which rules are applied to the game.

The only thing making Triple Triad easier to master than chess is the fact that TT games are so short. With only nine moves in the entire game, you never have to plan more than seven or eight moves ahead, and by midgame, that's down to four. But that's still a lot of possibilities to consider, especially if some of those possibilities trigger combos that change the makeup of the whole board. With 30 seconds, you don't get to consider any of them.

[PeachKid]

Speed Chess.

Yes. Perhaps I should have been more specific by saying "The majority of players wouldn't want to limit the time so much in chess, so why with this?", but I had a character limit to content with

There's nothing wrong with Speed TT. I'm all for it. There is just absolutely no reason whatsoever to limit players' options. Making your plays more quickly doesn't necessarily make you a better strategist, it just makes you a faster one. I'd love the option to make the best tactical plays that I can. That's really all there is to it. Give us the option.

[Niwashi]

If someone is a "good strategist", why can't they beat a bad strategist, when they each have 30 seconds? xD

Because in 30 seconds, neither player is using strategy. Skill at a technique that you're not allowed to use isn't helpful.

Speed Chess.

Yes, that's a good analogy. Chess and Speed Chess use the same board, the same game pieces, and even most of the same rules. But the addition of one extra rule limiting the time you can take completely changes the whole nature of the game. Chess is a game of strategy. Speed chess is a game of pattern recognition. Despite their obvious but superficial similarities, they're not even in the same genre of games.

Here we're being given the Triple Triad equivalent of speed chess, but without being given its equivalent of chess itself. Those of us who enjoy having strategy in games want the strategy version of this one.

[Aeyis]

If someone is a "good strategist", why can't they beat a bad strategist, when they each have 30 seconds? xD

I for one would not be happy taking an 30mins - an hour to play 1 TT match.

Extent the time to 45s maybe, but any more is really not needed imo.

snip.

Chess is never about probability. It is about the logical next move. The amount of moves are fairly limited, as far as these things go. Because the amount of actions each piece can take are also fairly limited.

In addition, the NPCs have displayed behaviour different from using mere ''patterns''. Their actions cannot be 100% predicted.
That is my experience from fighting the same NPCs for hours straight, using the exact same deck and positioning.

[Mutemutt]

To be honest, I think the time limit isn't that bad. Compared with chess, the possible moves in Triple Triad shrinks very quickly because of both the shrinking space and dwindling resources.

The only change I would like is to have all the time granted right at the beginning of the match rather then only allocated for any given move. As it stands, all the extra time left over from a quick move goes to waste. The player moving 1st will make 5 moves (with the last move having no alternative) and the 2nd player will make 4, so I'd like to have my 2 minutes and 30 seconds up front; that way I can take extra time for moves when necessary and simply have to play quickly towards the end ( where there is less possibilities to pore over anyway).

[Freyt]

I like the time limit.
I never need more than the time alotted, even when facing a new opponent. If I lost, it's either because I made a dumb mistake (within 5-10 seconds), or because my cards aren't up to snuff, or my prediction was off.

The idea of a 2 minute time limit scares me. It's fine against NPC's since it won't effect me either way, but against players, I don't want to sit there for 10+ minutes for one game.

[Kyutaru]

Not at thirty seconds, they won't. People who are good at planning ahead are the ones who take a few minutes to do so. The 30 second rule makes it a flash speed game. That's a completely different skill set. There are people who are good at it, but they're not the strategists that a game like Triple Triad would be best suited to.

What? Chess is played in this way at tournaments, you're on the clock constantly and have to come up with the best move in the shortest timeframe. Heck, speed chess has an even shorter timeframe with players taking 3 second turns most of the time. The turn time limit is overcome by pattern recognition and memorization to the point that you instinctively know the optimal move by merely glancing at the available cards. Giving people time to plan out their movements would make it like Tic Tac Toe... every game's a draw.

[Aeyis]

What? Chess is played in this way at tournaments, you're on the clock constantly and have to come up with the best move in the shortest timeframe. Heck, speed chess has an even shorter timeframe with players taking 3 second turns most of the time. The turn time limit is overcome by pattern recognition and memorization to the point that you instinctively know the optimal move by merely glancing at the available cards. Giving people time to plan out their movements would make it like Tic Tac Toe... every game's a draw.

In chess you can literally see and predict every single move that your opponent can make. Unless you play by the ''all open'' rule, this is not the case in TT. A large part of being able to defeat the harder NPCs is memorizing what cards they have available, and what stats are on them.

In addition, both sides are equal (apart from first move), in chess. Whereas in TT both sides have wildly different moves at their disposal.

[wicked-one]

If you are on a Poker Table and your Opponent does take 10 Minutes for every move, on a Pot of 50 Cent, you will never invite him again, i promise ;-)

"The timelimit puts all the strategy and planing ahead out of the game"
- no Speed-Chess player ever said...

[Kuwagami]

In chess you can literally see and predict every single move that your opponent can make. Unless you play by the ''all open'' rule, this is not the case in TT. A large part of being able to defeat the harder NPCs is memorizing what cards they have available, and what stats are on them.

In addition, both sides are equal (apart from first move), in chess. Whereas in TT both sides have wildly different moves at their disposal.

yeah, that's why strategy isn't possible (in the large scale) in PVP TT. Sure you can easily predict your own moves based on you deck and your opponent's moves, but there is no way you can predict what they will do and when they'll do it, because there is no way you can guess their deck (unless you've already played 5 times with them against their 5 decks, while having them begin each time which is RNG, without allowing them to change any of the cards they use.... which is a hell lot of conditions).



While the chess/speed chess vs TT comparison is a good one regarding the time to make a move, i's a bad one if you consider the essence of the game.

Chess is about long term planning. You can plan beforehand because you're likely to know your opponents, their opening, reactions, strong points and weaknesses, etc.... So you can put up a plan to counter them. If that doesn't work, strategy and tactics come in play for quick bursts or long term moves to get an advantage. All in all, you'r not likely to win in a few moves in an equal match.

TT on the other hand, is mainly about short term action, due to its nature (9 moves in total), and the unpredictability of its PvP. You can't plan anything beforehand if you aren't in PvE (the IA is dumb and uses the same patterns 90% of the time. Learn those fix patterns and adapt, you'll win). You cannot guess which cards a player will use, thus you cannot have a strategy against them. All you have left is luck and really short time planning on your moves, by example if a "plus" pattern appears and you just happened to have the right card to activate it. You can't force a player to enter a winning pattern because you have no data on his deck.


In regards to that, the time allowed to play doesn't matter. It helps to make quick maths for plus, same, ascension, or similar, but other than that, there is nothing more you can do.


edit : actually, the only rule that would allow anyone to plan anything and could allow more time to think is the "all open", and eventually "three open" but there are 2 unknown variables in the planning, which always lead to bad plans. You can't plan anything good if you don't know everything