Triple Triad Time Limit Too Short

[PeachKid]

Please, make the time limit on Triple Triad turns longer.

Triple Triad is a strategic game. 30 seconds just isn't long enough to plan several plays ahead, working in the best options for regional rules and etc.

I understand the need to have a limit in place (or else people will just sit for 20mins while you wait, cursing your inability to cancel a game), but why only 30sec?

Here's my suggestion:
-For NPCs, make the default time limit 2 minutes (at least - 3 minutes would be preferable). It could also be something like harder NPCs give you less time, but that does make things more complicated.
-Against PCs (if not simply assigning the default time), allow the challenger to select time options, between 30 seconds and 5 minutes per turn.

Please do consider this. I love Triple Triad, but my favorite aspect is the strategy involved and it's just impossible to flesh it out as much with so little time.

[Niwashi]

I was just about to post the same thing. Triple Triad should be an involved strategic game. It has all the elements for it. But I barely have time to make out what all the numbers are so I can throw down the first card I find that might flip one. There's no chance to even consider what alternatives there might be, where combos might happen, how the other player/NPC might respond, how any special rules might influence it, etc. I want to be able to plan a couple moves ahead in a game like this, but the 30 second time limit makes that impossible. (I don't even have time to check the opponent's cards when they're visible, making All Open and Three Open useless.)

As for needing a time limit, I can only see that as necessary when playing against another player. Against NPCs, there's not much reason for having any limit, but if there is one, it should be several minutes. Between players, letting them choose a time limit when challenging each other would be a nice addition. Or if it's easier to just have a single set time limit on everything, make it like three or four minutes or something, certainly not 30 seconds.

[Welsper59]

I was just about to post the same thing. Triple Triad should be an involved strategic game. It has all the elements for it. But I barely have time to make out what all the numbers are so I can throw down the first card I find that might flip one. There's no chance to even consider what alternatives there might be, where combos might happen, how the other player/NPC might respond, how any special rules might influence it, etc. I want to be able to plan a couple moves ahead in a game like this, but the 30 second time limit makes that impossible. (I don't even have time to check the opponent's cards when they're visible, making All Open and Three Open useless.)

As for needing a time limit, I can only see that as necessary when playing against another player. Against NPCs, there's not much reason for having any limit, but if there is one, it should be several minutes. Between players, letting them choose a time limit when challenging each other would be a nice addition. Or if it's easier to just have a single set time limit on everything, make it like three or four minutes or something, certainly not 30 seconds.

I will totally troll people if 3-4min system set became a thing for PvP TT lol. I mean, I get that some people can't think fast enough or feel pressured and panic a little (because I definitely do), but that's still a very VERY long time. You're looking at a minimum of 15-20min games if I were to do that LOL. This isn't chess. This is more akin to checkers for the amount of thought you need. 1 minute, however, seems perfectly fine and ideal to me (or the player set time limit). This is a math game. If you're horrible at math, you're probably not going to enjoy yourself very much regardless of time limit. I hate math, but I can certainly function basic addition, subtraction, and number matching just fine.

Against NPCs, time limit kind of makes sense, but feels unnecessary. They're probably afraid of hundreds of people simply AFKing while accessing the NPC. Might be for potential problems that arise in case of that. It's also likely to be partially because of PvP reasons, where they DON'T want players to have unlimited time (because of people like me that will just troll you if something ridiculous like that happened). At first, especially when you just started to challenge an NPC, you're gonna wish you had that extended time limit but the results are likely going to be the same at first. After a while though, it's systematic because you become familiar with the NPCs cards and how it plays them. Time limit means nothing after a while.

Honestly, the big picture of it is that TT is a training game (see Brain Age). You're intended to eventually think faster and more efficiently the more you play. You become more accustomed to the cards, rules, and your opponent(s), not to mention you're becoming better at problem solving, basic math, and working under pressure. At least, that's how it is CURRENTLY set up. Which is funny, given that by taking out the basic math function, this really isn't much different of a training process than learning a new dungeon/raid/boss/etc. If they ever change it, then that might not be the case, but for now, it is what it is.

[Aeyis]

This isn't chess.

No, it isnt as simple as chess is, and a heck of a lot less predictable. 30 seconds isnt nearly long enough for anything, pvp or otherwise.

[Welsper59]

No, it isnt as simple as chess is, and a heck of a lot less predictable. 30 seconds isnt nearly long enough for anything, pvp or otherwise.

I think you're doing something wrong if you really think that, like needlessly over-complicating the game. Like I said, at first it's complicated... but there's set patterns. The NPC, for example, is predictable in most cases. They can throw curveballs, sure, but they're still following a relatively set pattern of play. In fact, in most cases, it will be literally impossible to win most games against difficult NPCs. Some of them, such as King and the Imperial, you can cheese them due to the rules they have. Again, not that complicated overall due to that, and the fact that many matches are designed for you to lose (at least until you reach 2 then 3 star decks). You'll still run into situations where you have no chance of winning, but that's how it is. That much is a fact lol

There are a certain combination of rules can make things difficult, definitely, but it's not that hard of a prediction game. Single digit numbers are a lot more user friendly than chess pieces in noticing probability and potential, partly due to the fact it's literally what it is... not a whole lot more than that (like meaning behind the number and various ways use it doesn't really exist, since 1 is always 1, even when descension rule is in play, 1 is still 1, exception being that it represents a dominant number now). If anything, the primary strategy surrounds rules like Plus, to lure out certain cards. The number you use isn't too relevant, in that most cases it won't matter if you use a "1" or "2" as a low card number to lure the NPC into a trap.

Against players though, yeah, more time might be needed. I still say anything more than 1min is too long though for a competitive game designed to be fast. Even in FF8, there was never a match that required me to think for 5min on every turn.

[Niwashi]

I think you're doing something wrong if you really think that, like needlessly over-complicating the game. Like I said, at first it's complicated... but there's set patterns.

You're confusing strategizing a game with memorizing it. That you can break the system isn't a valid reason for prohibiting people who want to from playing it for real. If played correctly, there should be no difference in your chances the first time you encounter an unfamiliar NPC from the 100th time you repeat the same match with him (other than by upgrading your own deck or your skill in the meantime). Currently, the prevailing approach (because it's the only one the time limits allow), is essentially to cheat, manipulating the game based off memorizing the software's pattern logic. We should be allowed to instead choose moves based on the strategy of the Triple Triad game itself and its assorted rules.

Single digit numbers are a lot more user friendly than chess pieces in noticing probability and potential, partly due to the fact it's literally what it is... not a whole lot more than that (like meaning behind the number and various ways use it doesn't really exist, since 1 is always 1, even when descension rule is in play, 1 is still 1, exception being that it represents a dominant number now). If anything, the primary strategy surrounds rules like Plus, to lure out certain cards. The number you use isn't too relevant, in that most cases it won't matter if you use a "1" or "2" as a low card number to lure the NPC into a trap.

You sort of started arguing against your own point there, but anyway... Chess pieces are far simpler and more straightforward. In chess, a knight is always a knight and always moves the way a knight does. A rook is always a rook and always moves the way a rook does. Furthermore, you always know that each player will have exactly two of each of them. The rules are fixed and unchanging, and so are the pieces. In TT, the way a given card "moves" (which in this case means what effect it has) varies according to which rules are applied to the game.

The only thing making Triple Triad easier to master than chess is the fact that TT games are so short. With only nine moves in the entire game, you never have to plan more than seven or eight moves ahead, and by midgame, that's down to four. But that's still a lot of possibilities to consider, especially if some of those possibilities trigger combos that change the makeup of the whole board. With 30 seconds, you don't get to consider any of them.

[Aeyis]

If someone is a "good strategist", why can't they beat a bad strategist, when they each have 30 seconds? xD

I for one would not be happy taking an 30mins - an hour to play 1 TT match.

Extent the time to 45s maybe, but any more is really not needed imo.

snip.

Chess is never about probability. It is about the logical next move. The amount of moves are fairly limited, as far as these things go. Because the amount of actions each piece can take are also fairly limited.

In addition, the NPCs have displayed behaviour different from using mere ''patterns''. Their actions cannot be 100% predicted.
That is my experience from fighting the same NPCs for hours straight, using the exact same deck and positioning.

[h0tNstilettos]

I agree that the time limit is too short.

This is my solution:

-against NPCs: 1-2 minutes (time limit might be a security net related to how many players can be in a TT game at the same time with same NPC due to this being an online game, so this way no one can just sit there with a TT window running)
-against PCs: challenger choose a time limit, up to a certain limit like 5 minutes
-against PCs in tournament: time limit depending on tournament time limit rules, most TCGs and CCGs do not have a time limit for turns, BUT if opponent or a judge thinks player is taking exceptionally long they can be put on a time limit for said turn and penalized if they fail to finish in time, but since TT tournaments don't have judges, there would need to be a time

[bigjohnny]

As someone who absolutely loved the cards games in Final fantasy 8 and 9, I have to say I find the current time limit somewhat disappointing. When I played the old card games I would fully analyze every card my opponent had and then plan my next move accordingly and from there work out my counter options to his options, and then his counter options to mine. It was all about planning out all possible scenarios and coming up with strategies to overcome the possibilities I may have overlooked. But with the current time limit, this just really isn't possible at all. Every move is rushed and in doing so, much of the strategy and planning is lost.

I would really like to see the time limit greatly increased. Ideally with an option to change the time limit to what suits you best. I feel three minitues would be the minimum needed per turn for me personally. But if others like to play quicker games, they could just set the timer to 30 seconds or 1 minute. Not everyone likes long strategic games, and not everyone likes quick paced games with less time for decisions. But with the current time limit everyone is just forced into the same boat.
We really should have the option to choose how lengthy our games can be.

[Niwashi]

-against NPCs: 1-2 minutes (time limit might be a security net related to how many players can be in a TT game at the same time with same NPC due to this being an online game, so this way no one can just sit there with a TT window running)

That's a bit like saying there should be a limit on opening your character window or Journal. The TT window only exists on your own PC or console. The server needs to know when you make a move, and needs to make a decision when it's time for the NPC to make a move, but any time in between those events would be irrelevant to the server.

And in any case, the length of time a game lasts doesn't affect the number of players who are playing. Most players (particularly around the more popular NPCs where this would be the biggest issue) are just starting another game as soon as their previous one finishes, so they've continuously got the TT window open as long as they're there, regardless of how fast or slowly those games progress. The only thing that being able to take the game slower would mean is that they'd finish fewer games within that time (which would actually mean less for the server to do).

So no, I don't see any valid reason why there should be any time limit when playing against NPCs, not unless it's simply that SE can't separate different time limits on different games and want one when players are playing each other. SE is better than that, and should be perfectly able to offer more suitable time limits or better yet, a choice of time limits.

Against NPCs, players should be able to take as long as they want to make their moves, as they're the only one affected by how long they take.

When playing another player, they should be able to choose their time limit, to be agree on between the two (with a range of probably 30 seconds to 5 minutes, with the initial default being 3 or 4 minutes). After all, for a strategic game, we don't want the time limit ever being a factor on legitimate moves, only a safety feature to protect against AFK players). That means it should be set longer than anyone would ever need on the most challenging move, so drastically longer than you'd usually take for most moves.