Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Shura]

Yeah, it's melee's own fault. I haven't seen a single one even bother maximize their DPS/TP Gain with throwing weapons, and only a handful use attack food.

I assume your being sarcastic, but i dont think TP gain rate for close range DPS is that much different from Archers, lnc gains tp faster then any class, pug used to also be faster but i have not tried it since 1.18. But tp gain and DPS is a known problem and the team has admitted as much. Hopefully once multi attack and haste is added, this problem will fade. Those who read the forums should already know that 1.18 is only basic changes, we won't see jobs till 1.20 or later and have no idea job will change class game play.

[whoopeeragon]

Thanks for this post. I genuinely appreciate your remarks.

I summed up the translation by Reinheart in the headline with the actual translation in the OP and the English official translation came not far behind it. Anyway, all it says in the patch notes is what Matsui said he was going to do.. buff melees - which I already pointed out is an inadequate response. I mean it's great that they got buffs but a buff can't change this situation because it's nested too far down in the hierarchy of causes for this issue. It will only lead to more successful runs of groups that were willing to take melee in the first place, and the GLA/CON/ARC groups will keep right on trucking. That's the whole reason I made this thread, to get a response from Matsui that is actually going to change things for the better.

Hmm...perhaps it depends on how you look at it. From my perspectives, I see it as a way that WILL change it for the better, because the other classes get buffed. You say that's it's not much of a changer, but in terms of DPS, it will vastly anchor the other melee classes to the same level of Gladiator and Archer. It's a step in the right direction; it may not do the job perfectly, but it's getting there. Right now, I think that, instead of calling out Matsui, we should actually provide more feedback. You may disagree, but if you view it as a step in the right direction, it would be better.

I feel you though.. the forums have been getting on my nerves, but I'm really not as cynical as I may appear to be.

Yea, I've had my share of forums getting aggravating. -looks at my previous post raging against archer lovers-. But if we didn't rage once in awhile, we would have been made out of stone.

I still have a lot of good ideas and things I'd like to post about, but did you notice the string of "busy, we'll look into it" responses? I'm focusing on posting about things that they are busy working on - not things they're too busy to work on.

I actually didn't notice them. o.o -makes a mental note to dig through your topics and posts-

That's what these forums are for after all. I don't believe grumbling is a good way to look at the threads I've posted. What the dev team wants to know is how people feel about changes, anger, frustration, surprise, disappointment included. Negative emotions are still valuable feedback. A complete patch can avoid negativity by being well designed. I appreciate you being so constructive, but I really don't think this is a great time for me to be posting imaginative suggestions when they are so focused on practical matters.

Yes. Negative feedback is wished for, but to have a topic named Matsui 'telling melee range to suck it up'...well, you can see how the rest of the community will react towards such a statement. Especially since it isn't 100% valid as well. But true, since they're focusing on actual matters, it probably make new ideas redundant. I approve of it, but the means at which you go around expressing your negativity is still a bit extreme.

There are a lot of active dev tags about issues that could really make or break this game right now. You'll see my apparent attitude change after that, if I'm still playing.

All our attitudes will change depending on the devs choices, and right now, there are changes that can't be accepted. And some of those changes don't sit well with you, Neptune. That's ok, relax. The devs will get the feedback, and balance it out so it isn't as extreme a change. But the way you've been practically feeding this forum on your concern is a bit daunting, and at the same time, can be aggravating. You're entitled to it, really, but perhaps it's time to accept it. Relax. Take a breather from the game, and come back when you can accept the change.

Try to take a look at this thread as something more than complaining - it's about human behavior and how online games are evolving as the relationship between dev team and players becomes clearer - distilled into an opinion about one single issue negatively affecting other players.

You see, Neptune, that's the problem. You try to fight a losing battle, and in the process of trying to make constructive criticism, its as if you complaining and grumbling, when you clearly aren't; I can see and tell. For example, your Mage Strike topic. It's logical to be a bit iffy because of the changes, because, yes, the changes were heavy, and people are not the same in adapting to changes. But to create 3 threads that targets the unjust nature of the patch against mages, when the majority of the community have accepted the changes and wait for fine-tuning to balance it out, is a bit extreme. As the saying goes, too many cooks spoil the broth, and you have too many topics addressing that issue of mages. Let it cool, let it sink into the devs, and check back on it next patch; if it isn't improved, yell a bit more. But harping on about it, no matter the intention, won't paint you in a better light, Neptune.

This thread is a bit better, true. The complaints are, from conflicting perspectives, justified. So you're correct in your sense. However, I still believe that way you say is harsh. Saying that Matsui told us to 'suck it up' is taking it a bit extreme. But then, that's also a matter of representation. You interpret that statement as one thing, and me a different. Besides, no offence to Reinheart because I respect him a lot for his work in bringing us fast news (hugs his subligar), but it may not be entirely accurate. And Bayohne's localisation doesn't seem to suggest anything of Matsui's attitude. You are, however, quite justified in expressing concern regarding the structure of parties in the dungeons because of each class' advantages, and right now, ARC and GLA take the high spot. I see this as a fast fix that can work for this case and level of the game, but you see it as something that won't alter the situation.

But even so, I don't think you'll get a response. I'm sorry to say, but I think you're in the minority regarding the changes coming in 1.18a. Of course, the ARC-fans will be backing up their class no matter what, but even so, the majority (I think) are quite alright with the proposed changes. In fact, it's been a rather positive outlook. -looks at the more constructive posts on the 1.18a topic-

Either way, I still admire you for your rather in-depth analytic posts, as well as your minimal tendency to insult and berate others. But sometimes, its best to just step back.

I'm sorry to be calling you out like this, but I do this because I still like you, and I want your more valuable posts to be acknowledged. So I'm sorry if I offended you badly, Neptune.

Just remember that if you do feel stressed out or banged, just rest. Sleep more, stretch more, scream and run through the streets naked if you have to. It can do wonders for the body and brain. The resting, that is. Not the streaking through the streets.

Except, you didn't fix the one that makes it sound ridiculous. Riddle = River.

Hmm...I have to disagree. No matter how much I listen to that song, it still sounds like 'riddle' instead of 'river'. The soundtrack version AND the live performance at the Tokyo distant worlds have it as 'riddle', so I'm having that one, still.

[Ryndael]

Hmm...I have to disagree. No matter how much I listen to that song, it still sounds like 'riddle' instead of 'river'. The soundtrack version AND the live performance at the Tokyo distant worlds have it as 'riddle', so I'm having that one, still.

How do riddles 'bear' anything? And riddles don't 'flow from the land'. Doesn't even make sense. The song is equating life to a river.

[Ryndael]

I assume your being sarcastic, but i dont think TP gain rate for close range DPS is that much different from Archers, lnc gains tp faster then any class, pug used to also be faster but i have not tried it since 1.18. But tp gain and DPS is a known problem and the team has admitted as much. Hopefully once multi attack and haste is added, this problem will fade. Those who read the forums should already know that 1.18 is only basic changes, we won't see jobs till 1.20 or later and have no idea job will change class game play.

If I was being sarcastic, I would have said so. People are just being lazy and waiting around for auto-attack to kick in, when they should be throwing things in-between.

[Scape]

the other melee can do just as much damage as Archer. Only advantage is being out of range, which is the whole purpose of being an Archer.

[TirionCrey]

Why assume everyone is so selfish? Why would you assume I don't care about other players getting excluded? What is going on right now is ridiculous. I log on, my group farms Batraal, and we practically throw away axes that drop since nobody has Marauder up. It's completely unfair for 4/5ths of melee to be so looked down upon. I've been looked down on in FFXI for trying to do my thing so I know what it feels like to have the community turn against you.. because of the initiative of the battle planner.

My first Job I ranked to 75 in XI was DRK...that was during RoZ/CoP time, so you can figure how much I got "excluded" from stuff. That's the time where you need to take the initiative and step up and do shit on your own. Form your own groups, start a group, make a LS, whatever...it all comes down to people complaining but doing NOTHING to change it. I started almost all of the groups I lvld my DRK with and big surprise, over time people got to know me and actually ASKED me to join their PTs, cause they knew I've been a good DRK compared to so many shitty ones who actually worked on his job to get good gear and have Scythe/Sword both capped etc...

And why? Because people are lazy and rather have everyone else organize shit and just expect to be taken to just everything. Sorry, if you're not stepping up don't feel butthurt if other people who actually do it, won't let you join.

Plus, if you wanna come on Dungeon Runs as a Meele, which is absolutely possible and works, why not actually DO something and help the group by being prepared...rank your classes so you can avoid dmg and don't need to run from every single AoE attack. Get Stun WSs into your bars, get Featherfoot, Foresight, Second Wind, Decoy, Diversion and whatnot...ALL of them will help you not taking dmg while staying on Ogre and Batraal so you won't be a "burden" for the healers and instead a valuable addition to the group.

People could find solutions to counter this "narrow minded" group setups, but most are not even willing to do it, cause they are lazy f**ks...

If you want to go into the dungeon and KNOW just your mere presence will make it harder for the rest of the group, why not get the stick out of your ass and actually improve your character and his skills to be less of a burden?
People just screaming and complaining "I want to go in the dungeon as well" and then being excluded from it just cause their Meeles are just as selfish, as everyone else who excludes them for no reason...

PS: Your Canopus Bill example is invalid, cause MRd is a viable tank on Ogre and Batraal...if you got MRDs who don't wanna tank, well then don't be butthurt as well...work with what you're given!

[whoopeeragon]

How do riddles 'bear' anything? And riddles don't 'flow from the land'. Doesn't even make sense. The song is equating life to a river.

It doesn't make sense, but that's what the song has. I'm not about to argue the abstract qualities of a song or not, but the lyrics and the two versions I have both use riddle instead of river, so that's staying there. Besides, the 'bearing' part is for life, not the riddle part. The song is likening life to a riddle (seeking to find Answers). As for the 'flow from the land', that's also taking about life.

[Ryndael]

It doesn't make sense, but that's what the song has. I'm not about to argue the abstract qualities of a song or not, but the lyrics and the two versions I have both use riddle instead of river, so that's staying there. Besides, the 'bearing' part is for life, not the riddle part. The song is likening life to a riddle (seeking to find Answers). As for the 'flow from the land', that's also taking about life.

Aww, I wanted a page-long reply.

[whoopeeragon]

Aww, I wanted a page-long reply.

Lol. I only do essays when there's enough to actually argue about. But in the case of our debate, I stick to my view, so I can't really say much. Besides, it's just song lyrics.