Let's have a round of applause for bringing grind parties front and center in FFXIV

[Neptune]

No one is arguing against options, you are simply trying to get them to kill the community by removing the benefit of grouping. Give solo players other options, hell give other options to groups again but party grinding with XP chains must be #1, because nothing else in any other MMO that has ever been developed has compared to it.

Was I advocating the removal of benefits to grouping? How so?

I usually agree with you Neptune but I'm actually in favor of grind parties being added. "It takes all kinds" as they say. I like having a variety of options for leveling up.

I'm cool with them being more possible as well, since a lot of people have fun with it. It just looks bad for this game to be copying such old school games in 2011 without offering anything new.

You need to try looking at this from a different perspective. You are seeing it as "this is what WoW and other semi-popular MMOs have done and so it's what FFXIV needs to do to compete with those games," but that is probably a flawed assumption.

Consider that this game already launched in such a poor state every casual gamer has pretty much given up on it. Not many of them will be likely to return ever. People gave it one chance, they didn't like it, and they left for good. Back to WoW or off to RIFT or whatever. FFXIV is so far behind these games in terms of content the developers would need to work twice as fast just to catch up. But would simply "catching up" cause any of those people left with a bad taste in their mouths to return? No, because they're already just as content playing something else. At this point in time, FFXIV cannot possibly hope to beat WoW at its own game. Even if they add solo quest grinding instead of improving party camp grinding, why should WoW-types return for something their game had years ago?

On the other hand, look at players past and present of FFXI. The game is over nine years old and still supports the PS2. The updates have slowed to a crawl and no truly new areas or expansive content additions have been made in years. Many players were upset by the changes made with the add-ons, the level cap increase, and the slow updates in Altana expansion content. The number of world server systems has been reduced by half, and the game is in its twilight. Those people have nowhere to turn, because all other modern MMOs have tried to copy WoW (RIFT is practically a carbon copy in a large number of areas) to try and capture some of its success. There is a large number of people who are in the market for a serious grind game with a monthly subscription fee, hardcore accomplishments most players wouldn't dream of doing more than once, party grinding, and, well, the Final Fantasy brand and icons. There are also some minor things that would help out here, like the fact that FFXI players would be more likely to even hear news of XIV being better in the first place.

What's more likely, that they can grab a few hundred thousand subscriptions from the modern MMO market flooded with similar games, or from a market where the most recent game catering toward it was made nine years ago? I think it's the latter.

This is a good post. First, the assumption is only as flawed as that method is for attracting attention from gamers willing to purchase the game and support it. In that case its only flaw is that it doesn't innovate.

When you say a large number of people support FFXI, let's take a look at that concept. A lot of those people can't run this game but they could maybe get on the PS3 version. If they all played FFXIV it might be enough to perpetuate this game. I've always seen it as a problem for FFXIV to develop into a niche title like FFXI. You say large, but we are talking about less than 100K people. I believe FFXIV can have broader appeal.. part of that is appealing to FFXI players, the rest to the mass market. They still have a chance but I really believe counting on FFXI players will be throwing that chance away. It sounds like a big risk. Those FFXI players will probably never quit FFXI.

I enjoy the quests too but 30,000 SP? That's about 1/3 of the SP required to hit 49 or 50. By that logic you should be able to hit those levels by doing a three quests in a short portion of your day.

I should have known someone would start quoting me on this out of context. 30k SP is about what I've been hearing you get out of 1 hour of grinding in a party. So yeah, it should be about equal. The reward for time is what should be equal. It isn't about a certain number.

I left FFXI for a reason.. I don't want to go back to it! FFXIV can be unique without having to resort to FFXI's tired methods, the foremost of which is the party grind. The inability to do anything efficiently by oneself (especially leveling up) is a big turn off for a lot of people, including myself.

I'm all for group content, but not when it is the only viable way to progress your character.

I agree.

This game is hanging onto too much of the past.

Loading screens between zones.. still?


Convoluted mechanics like the gate to the boat docks and having to click a menu to stand up after using /sit. (Small I know, but stuff like this makes the game feel like its limping on old technology)

Game still feels clunky and awkward (slightly less since the removal of the stamina bar) why on earth does this game feel so sluggish? Makes XI feel like hack and slash.

These things scare me more than the amount of dungeons they slap into the game or if they add a search feature.

I'm glad someone pointed this out.. let's not let the dev team forget about small issues like this before they attempt to relaunch the game.

I like grinding parties... It promotes skillful play and also gets people adjusted to new skills and responsibilities in PTs.

I think this is just a myth people think up to justify the mindless grind and time commitment. I'll explain why below.

It's like watching a sports team lose 10 games in a row but still go out fighting each day only to get stomped on.

In turn I offer them my condolences and a friendly hug. I hope the next mmo they are talking about is approached from a different angle, looking at modern game engines and scrapping the love affair with console based UIs.

It is sad.. I wonder what can be done about it.

So we can have r50 Tanks who can't tank, and r50 healers who can't heal? Good job.

Yeah, oh wait, why can't people beat the Ogre? Because they learned all those great skills partying to 50? Myths dude. You only learn how to tank and heal by educating yourself or having a good leader.

In FFXI there are plenty of people who accuse other capped players of being bad players, and that's in a game where it's impossible to solo. So there's your evidence that you don't know what you're talking about.

From experience it's more than the leveling curve that produces bad tanks, dps, and heals. Really, becoming actually good at doing a specific role has usually taken research outside of the game and practice.

Exactly.

Do you ever stop QQing? How have you not died from dehydration yet? It's simply amazing.

Crying is something you do when you can't change something.. the fact that you feel this way about the game makes me feel bad for you. Why do you accept this game as it is? That really calls into question your self-worth! Come on man, at least stand up for yourself; take a little pride in what you do, and try to do your part to make this a better game while we have the opportunity.

So basically, everyone is under the impression that WoW invented dungeons, raids, and questing, and that any game that includes these is a WoW clone. How tragic.

Exactly.. and people are still under the impression that FFXI invented anything, when in fact it desperately stole from other games to form its identity, leaving behind the rich material of its forebears.

This is what Neptune, Tonymontana, Gifforce, and several others want the game to be. A similar WoW clone.

I don't want that, any neither does giftforce of all people. You are just scared of our suggestions. All I did was say quests should award higher rewards and that equates to a WoW clone? Are you a little quick at the trigger there mate? haha

Progression through the game (leveling) by way of a large number of solo quests based on a few archetypes is exactly what WoW brought to the MMO world, and that is what the OP is suggesting FFXIV do now.

Negative.. although I wouldn't have a problem with that. I wouldn't make that suggestion because I don't think it's creative enough.

..a shitty game idea in a forum post in his signature.

The irony here.. in effect you just criticized yourself more than I ever could.

[SuzakuCMX]

Crying is something you do when you can't change something.. the fact that you feel this way about the game makes me feel bad for you. Why do you accept this game as it is? That really calls into question your self-worth! Come on man, at least stand up for yourself; take a little pride in what you do, and try to do your part to make this a better game while we have the opportunity.

? I try to improve this game in ways other than making multiple threads about "issues" that are being addressed or aren't issues at all. The first sentence is strange because you sure do cry a lot.

[Forerunner]

Yeah, oh wait, why can't people beat the Ogre? Because they learned all those great skills partying to 50? Myths dude. You only learn how to tank and heal by educating yourself or having a good leader.

In FFXI there are plenty of people who accuse other capped players of being bad players, and that's in a game where it's impossible to solo. So there's your evidence that you don't know what you're talking about.

I solo'd BLM on Qiqirns, Wamoura and Puddings. Think about all the Beastmasters, PUPs, Dragoons who had to solo because of people thinking they weren't worth a damn. Impossible to solo, shows YOU don't know what you're talking about.

"You only learn to tank and heal by educating yourself"

And getting 30k sp for killing two mobs really does that for you. Think before you post.