Let's have a round of applause for bringing grind parties front and center in FFXIV

[Tsukino]

You need to try looking at this from a different perspective. You are seeing it as "this is what WoW and other semi-popular MMOs have done and so it's what FFXIV needs to do to compete with those games," but that is probably a flawed assumption.

Consider that this game already launched in such a poor state every casual gamer has pretty much given up on it. Not many of them will be likely to return ever. People gave it one chance, they didn't like it, and they left for good. Back to WoW or off to RIFT or whatever. FFXIV is so far behind these games in terms of content the developers would need to work twice as fast just to catch up. But would simply "catching up" cause any of those people left with a bad taste in their mouths to return? No, because they're already just as content playing something else. At this point in time, FFXIV cannot possibly hope to beat WoW at its own game. Even if they add solo quest grinding instead of improving party camp grinding, why should WoW-types return for something their game had years ago?

On the other hand, look at players past and present of FFXI. The game is over nine years old and still supports the PS2. The updates have slowed to a crawl and no truly new areas or expansive content additions have been made in years. Many players were upset by the changes made with the add-ons, the level cap increase, and the slow updates in Altana expansion content. The number of world server systems has been reduced by half, and the game is in its twilight. Those people have nowhere to turn, because all other modern MMOs have tried to copy WoW (RIFT is practically a carbon copy in a large number of areas) to try and capture some of its success. There is a large number of people who are in the market for a serious grind game with a monthly subscription fee, hardcore accomplishments most players wouldn't dream of doing more than once, party grinding, and, well, the Final Fantasy brand and icons. There are also some minor things that would help out here, like the fact that FFXI players would be more likely to even hear news of XIV being better in the first place.

What's more likely, that they can grab a few hundred thousand subscriptions from the modern MMO market flooded with similar games, or from a market where the most recent game catering toward it was made nine years ago? I think it's the latter.

[Preypacer]

You need to try looking at this from a different perspective. You are seeing it as "this is what WoW and other semi-popular MMOs have done and so it's what FFXIV needs to do to compete with those games," but that is probably a flawed assumption.

... especially considering so many others have tried to follow that same formula and have had very underwhelming results.

WoW already exists for those who want that kind of game. For those who want something *like* WoW but not actually WoW... there are games like Rift, WAR, LoTRO, etc. etc..

I'd personally much rather SE take inspiration from how other MMOs are implementing certain elements... but do it in a way that feels truly "Final Fantasy". Don't just copy it wholesale. That would put the game squarely into the realm of "YAWC" (Yet Another WoW Clone).

As it is, some of the changes they've made are leaning it that way.

[Lyndis]

You need to try looking at this from a different perspective. You are seeing it as "this is what WoW and other semi-popular MMOs have done and so it's what FFXIV needs to do to compete with those games," but that is probably a flawed assumption.

Consider that this game already launched in such a poor state every casual gamer has pretty much given up on it. Not many of them will be likely to return ever. People gave it one chance, they didn't like it, and they left for good. Back to WoW or off to RIFT or whatever. FFXIV is so far behind these games in terms of content the developers would need to work twice as fast just to catch up. But would simply "catching up" cause any of those people left with a bad taste in their mouths to return? No, because they're already just as content playing something else. At this point in time, FFXIV cannot possibly hope to beat WoW at its own game. Even if they add solo quest grinding instead of improving party camp grinding, why should WoW-types return for something their game had years ago?

On the other hand, look at players past and present of FFXI. The game is over nine years old and still supports the PS2. The updates have slowed to a crawl and no truly new areas or expansive content additions have been made in years. Many players were upset by the changes made with the add-ons, the level cap increase, and the slow updates in Altana expansion content. The number of world server systems has been reduced by half, and the game is in its twilight. Those people have nowhere to turn, because all other modern MMOs have tried to copy WoW (RIFT is practically a carbon copy in a large number of areas) to try and capture some of its success. There is a large number of people who are in the market for a serious grind game with a monthly subscription fee, hardcore accomplishments most players wouldn't dream of doing more than once, party grinding, and, well, the Final Fantasy brand and icons. There are also some minor things that would help out here, like the fact that FFXI players would be more likely to even hear news of XIV being better in the first place.

What's more likely, that they can grab a few hundred thousand subscriptions from the modern MMO market flooded with similar games, or from a market where the most recent game catering toward it was made nine years ago? I think it's the latter.

I thought this post was amazing. Really captures my thoughts on the whole FFXIV sequel to FFXI argument.
What we don't want is a game like every other game that's being developed right now. They're all copying the same formula (successful, yes, but there are enough of these already). We need a modern reinvention of the spirit of what FFXI was. That doesn't necessarily mean copying game mechanics.

Also, they do have other ways to rank up than just grind parties. Which is great! I would like to see behest tweaked a little though, that was an interesting alternative way to level.
This is what the possibilities I've seen or would like to see.
Grind parties - Requiring planning and then a repetitive grind based off your your class role. Exp dependent on planning.
Leves - Spike Exp you can occasionally do, tells you where to go and what to do and possible solo.
Behest - Slow Exp, mass group formed on the fly, little attention necessary.
Quests - Spike Exp that is not repeatable, offers lore and many other options.

Should probably require more than one of these above options to attain rank fifty.