Make Stoneskin 2 instant cast

[thunderbreak]

Yeah, this will benefit them. But there is no reason to over use SS2.

I'm not saying I'm right when to use SS2 or not, but following your idea you can ask improvment for any spell and say "I use it a lot, it will benefit me if the spell is changed in X way".

It's not about the % of players that use the skill / want an improvment of the sill, it's about a balance. Each time you give improvment to X% of players, you are likely to make some Y% unhappy players.

Look at the "Shroud of saints needs to scal with the MP!". A lot of players share the view, but some others don't and if it happened to be changed, these some others players would have more easy time in the game (whereas it is already easy).

Don't interpret "I use it a lot, it will benefit me if the spell is changed in X way" as "I want to make my class more OP". They are 2 very different concepts. Making Stoneskin 2 instant cast will NOT break balance in any imaginable way.

Also what reason would making Stoneskin 2 instant cast make some players unhappy? So far the only thing I read on this thread is, "It shouldn't be used too often". Well in this thread I don't care about how often it uses, I only care about what happens when it's used.

And just so we are clear, I hate Stoneskin with a passion. If you read one of my old threads I created an entire thread telling people Stoneskin is way too over used. But I still recognize there are healers attached to it like dung beetle on shit. And these healers will take that 6 seconds of time casting this damn thing after I popped Fight or Flight.

[Viviza]

All together: The reason Stoneskin 2 has a 6 second casting time, is because SE don't want people to use it everytime?

Right. This way, you only cast it when you're willing to invest 6s or a swiftcast to get the buffs up. In a raid this is a no-brainer.. you'd have spent the 24s to spam everyone with buffs anyway. In a dungeon you're chain pulling you probably won't bother. Result is a quality of life improvement without a fundamental change to how the spell is used.

[Kelya]

It won't make some players unhappy in the way you think. It's just normal that everyspell has a cost and a constraint. WHM is a lot about casting spell, only instant are Regen, Benediction, Aero 1, Aquatic aura ect... This makes senses that SS2 stays into this logic background. It still has a MP cost, it's still linked to the SS 1 so it's makes senses that it still needs a cast time.

[thunderbreak]

Right. This way, you only cast it when you're willing to invest 6s or a swiftcast to get the buffs up. In a raid this is a no-brainer.. you'd have spent the 24s to spam everyone with buffs anyway. In a dungeon you're chain pulling you probably won't bother. Result is a quality of life improvement without a fundamental change to how the spell is used.

Ok fair enough, how do you account for the tons of healers pre-Stoneskin before all the mobs are dead, and the tons of healers just cast it raw even though Swiftcast is up? Would you say this ideal is working well in practice?

[Lyzern]

What about immersion in the game? World sense, as in, the world's physics and all that jazz.

What sense would it make for Stoneskin II to have no cast time? It takes time to channel the aether necessary to protect 8 people, you know?

What's next? Instant Teleports? lel, get a grip

[Moqi]

You can't talk about immersion when we literally woke up one day and learned a new spell out of the blue.

[Ghishlain]

Given how anti-Speed Run the Dev team has been in their dungeon design, the only legitimate reason I can think of that they didn't make SS2 instant cast was to give WHMs a choice in their resource management in a speedrun environment.

"Do I burn my swiftcast on that Stoneskin II? Or perhaps I'll burn it with a Holy I'll use later down the line? Oh, and the MP cost on Stoneskin II is pretty high for four people, maybe I should save the MP for another Holy or Cure on the next pack" etc etc.

I guess you could say it was an attempt to give WHM a bit more depth in their toolkit.

Personally, I believe SS2 as a QoL tool for Raid groups, allowing groups to only wait 8 seconds (or less if the WHM burns Swiftcast) instead of 24 seconds between wipes. Kinda funny, if they allowed SS2 to only be cast in only a Full Party composition, they might've avoided some of these threads popping up. But hey, hindsight is 20/20.

[Cynfael]

Considering the limitation of not being able to cast it in combat (as well as targets engaging in combat during the casting not receiving it), the cast time is a little excessive. Not game-breakingly so, but it is a little annoying.

I think Ghishlain is probably correct about the reasoning behind the SS2 cast time. I don't think it's really necessary, but I can see them looking at it that way.

[Viviza]

Ok fair enough, how do you account for the tons of healers pre-Stoneskin before all the mobs are dead, and the tons of healers just cast it raw even though Swiftcast is up? Would you say this ideal is working well in practice?

I would respond that asking a loaded question is in poor taste and then refuse to answer because of it.

[thunderbreak]

It won't make some players unhappy in the way you think. It's just normal that everyspell has a cost and a constraint. WHM is a lot about casting spell, only instant are Regen, Benediction, Aero 1, Aquatic aura ect... This makes senses that SS2 stays into this logic background. It still has a MP cost, it's still linked to the SS 1 so it's makes senses that it still needs a cast time.

"It doesn't feel right" just don't feel like an convincing answer.

Given how anti-Speed Run the Dev team has been in their dungeon design, the only legitimate reason I can think of that they didn't make SS2 instant cast was to give WHMs a choice in their resource management in a speedrun environment.

"Do I burn my swiftcast on that Stoneskin II? Or perhaps I'll burn it with a Holy I'll use later down the line? Oh, and the MP cost on Stoneskin II is pretty high for four people, maybe I should save the MP for another Holy or Cure on the next pack" etc etc.

I guess you could say it was an attempt to give WHM a bit more depth in their toolkit.

Personally, I believe SS2 as a QoL tool for Raid groups, allowing groups to only wait 8 seconds (or less if the WHM burns Swiftcast) instead of 24 seconds between wipes. Kinda funny, if they allowed SS2 to only be cast in only a Full Party composition, they might've avoided some of these threads popping up. But hey, hindsight is 20/20.

I feel everyone here has a legitimate explanation of why Stoneskin 2 has cast time to a degree. In practice there are, and will be people who will use it indiscriminately. And while it will never break an entire duty run, I find it cumulatively annoy. So the reason I'm creating this thread, is to say if they are gonna do it anyways, just make it less interruptible.

I personally died way too many times to WHM, much more often than SCH. Mainly because of their poor judgement of the situation, and poor resource management. I mean I wish all of the WHM out there will practice the thought process you are describing lol, it'll really make my day as Tank.

I would respond that asking a loaded question is in poor taste and then refuse to answer because of it.

It was rhetorical. You and I already know the answer, you reserving to a put-down just confirmed it.