Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Elazu]

Because people get in a mood when someone else can get something similar to what they had, but much easier...hence why we all call them elitists as they think people should do what they had to do in order to gain better gear, instead of waiting and doing the easy way.

I bet 90% of so called raiders have done hunts non stop to get mark logs since they came out. Instead of doing the raids.

Having read this whole thread, it seems like non-raiders get "in a mood" because they feel entitled to get everything in this game, even if they don't do the content that gives the things they want. Then they are called out on it, hence them calling raiders "elitist".

You all have this weird notion of every raider being some weird elitist monster that is out to hunt you down. Guess what? Raiders are just normal humans playing this game for fun.

[Hammerfist]

This has nothing to do with being an elitist: max item level gear is literally the ONLY in-game reward for doing the most difficult content in the game and it is of actual use only to raiders anyway (WoD is the hardest content that most people who farm WoD gear will ever do, as ridiculous as it sounds).

It's gear that will eventually become much easier to obtain with new patches and item levels, so stop asking SE to give you free Coil weapons/gear as soon as they come out and understand that you can't just buy everything with money or time.

[Ossom]

I would be down for another set of iLv130 gear, if the wall to get it was just as high as FcoB to get it. Especially since a lot of WoD gear's secondary stats are really freaking good. If they were iLv130 then people would be roughly 60% WoD gear, 20% Poetics, 20% Dread. It wouldn't make sense.

[FranSeara]

This is a little off topic guys so dont hate me. How about we stop upgrading our gear. I liked the Myth days were the gear you paid for (not nerf'ed with SS and SK) was DONE and didn't need upgrading. Lets say the Tome gear starts out at 130 and can't be upgraded. The coil gear starts out at 130 but can be upgraded to give the needed stat(s) boost to clear move floors in coil. In the end we'd have 130 and 135. If the raiders want to upgraded their gear they could clear coils move often or do hunts. I've never liked the idea of upgrading gear sets. It feels like you're being cheated. When I buy a set of gear, I want it done. I will not upgrade my Pol gear. I have over 1800 in seals right now. The bard and smn gear suck. None of its worth upgrading. I've cleared all the stuff in the game but FCOB (I have no plans to enter anymore coils) At item level 118, I'am done untill the new expansion hits. The WOD gear would be nice to upgrade but I'm not going to cry about.

[Sorrik]

Hmm, entitlement. Seems to go both ways.

Elite raiders are entitled to be the ONLY ones that can have the best gear through beating "hard" content.
Casual non raiders are entitled to equivalent gear through different avenues, less "hard" content.

It's like a he said, she said. Get over it. If you have the gear great, if not get it or something equivalent.

SE, remove content from the game that doesn't invalidate the time and effort put froth by either of these groups to earn gear.
This is what we all want right? Or we prefer to bicker endlessly over the same sh*t over and over again, regardless of venue?

I don't think you know what the word I used 'entitlement' actually means in all its forms. This is not me name-calling btw. This is me helping you understand; Entitlement (like many English words) 1)- Has multiple definitions and 2)- can be justifiable AND non-justifiable.

[Sorrik]

Justifiable entitlement's definition goes something (I'm no dictionary, I literally just put the word into Google and it popped up things that supported what I was trying to say anyways) like this; "The fact of having a right to something" or "The amount to which a person has a right" an example is: "I just finished 7 to 8 grueling years of college, law school, and passed The Bar. I AM entitled to being a lawyer."

Non-justifiable entitlement's definition is something like this; "The belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment" an example is: "How come I can't get hired as a lawyer?" For this argument assume the person did not complete the required amount of college.

[Sorrik]

Do you see the difference? Every time this discussion comes up, my eyeballs feel the stab of the casuals asking how come they can't be a lawyer even if they didn't go to law school. The 'law school' in the metaphor I used is NOT, IS NOT the subscription fee a person pays. Everyone playing this game has to do that so no one is special because of it. Not everyone will put in the work to complete Coil ipso facto people who complete Coil ARE ACTUALLY special. The literal definition of the word special, extraordinary, unique, etc. You are not special if you did hunts or WoD because it is a generally accepted view by FFXIV's community that any layman can accomplish so small a feat.

Don't cherry-pick words out of my paragraph either ... I see all you eyeballing the words, "so small a feat." LOL.

[Ashkendor]

so small a feat.

Hunt mobs don't even qualify as a small feat unless you face them in a single party (A) or alliance (S).

Something that melts in under a minute can pretty much be described as a speed bump. xD

[Kazumac]

So if they make carbon twine available to the masses (or giving casuals 130 left side already), I can only see this as a benefit. Some of the WoD gear specifically fits a gearing gap where there are no great alternatives (in ironworks or dreadwyrm). All this does is give the full community (raiders included) more options for getting the most out of their job.

Those clearing final coil still be the only people with BiS since most if not all BiS would require something from final coil.

[Kumabear76]

I would be down for another set of iLv130 gear, if the wall to get it was just as high as FcoB to get it. Especially since a lot of WoD gear's secondary stats are really freaking good. If they were iLv130 then people would be roughly 60% WoD gear, 20% Poetics, 20% Dread. It wouldn't make sense.

This is it, right here. You want the best gear without doing FCoB? Then do other, equally difficult stuff for equally good rewards. Besides, it wouldn't hurt to have some variety in end-game gear. It would allow for more variation in playstyles.