Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Minorinz]

I'm the caster in my group (BLM) but I've recently been replacing myself with my alt-character (NIN) due to not needing anymore drops on my main, so I can tell you from experience that yeah.... all the turns are possible without casters.
It does get a little crowded around the boss, though... hehe

My exact same situation, got every DW piece on my main so I'm going NIN next week on my alt. T10 and T11 are going to be a small raid DPS loss due to the unique advantages a caster brings, but T12 and 13, caster is truly pointless.

I love this. The dps gap created between melee and ranged is just a complete design flaw with Coil's mechanics, and honestly, SE won't do anything about summoner's single target anyway, not to mention how limited summoner is with its aoe unlike blm so i don't even know xD

Also, my respect+ for those summoners who are getting top dps or at least trying to push through, you guys are amazing.

[Leonus]

I love this. The dps gap created between melee and ranged is just a complete design flaw with Coil's mechanics...

Coil as a whole? Or just final coil? people could have done COB and SCOB without a melee (or just one for a specific situstion). 99% of groups won't do FCOB without a caster, certain things are made easier by having them. Same could be said in reverse. I'm fairly certain, People Could Do FCOB with just all casters for dps too. If ranged dps could match melee dps output, most groups for raiding would opt to have no melee or just one for LB like a lot of groups did for COB. It wasn't until SCOB that some groups brought more than one Mdps and it started to become balanced between 2 rdps/1 mdps and 2 mdps/2 caster dps groups.

[Minorinz]

-

Isn't it the point of this whole thread? Cause I can say that 99% of the current groups are taking casters and getting it done but why when you can get a melee class that can do higher dps anyway? Ofc it can be done with casters but dps optimization matters otherwise why are people switching to blm? Even better, why bother with summoner all together if it's how the system is intended to be.
I've cleared Final coil with summoner already, and i'm pretty sure so many people can down it too but favored to do so with blm because it's "better" well how about they switch to melee while they can since it's best. I mean, you can still do mechanics and catch up with the dps since single target is OP on melee, it's even better than ranged not doing mechanics. Isn't it how it's been? My favorite part is how SE is designing content to somewhat force groups to include casters to make it "easier" well why don't they fix the issue from the root?

[Leonus]

If melee could do as much AoE as casters then I could see a point in saying melee ST is OP. If they fix caster single target to put them in line with melee, they should do the same with buffing melee AOE to put them more in line with casters. Anytime adds pop up in any dungeon, caster dps blows melee out of the water until it's back down to ST. Should just fix it to where both melee and casters/ranged can do the same AoE damage and single target damage. Then, no one can complain anymore.

That way anyone can pick up any dps class for anything. They shouldn't fix one end without balancing out the other.

[Sunako]

Every job work in every content. In some content some job is better than another and vice versa. I did 470~ dps in this week with my SMN t13 and it was enough clear the content. I do not cry why some other job can do more. Just need hope next raid is more SMN friendly. In t9 SMN was probably one of the strongest dps job. It is pretty much impossible develop content that is equal for everyone. Just keep playing and watch what 3.0 bring for us.

[Minorinz]

If melee could do as much AoE as casters then I could see a point in saying melee ST is OP. If they fix caster single target to put them in line with melee, they should do the same with buffing melee AOE to put them more in line with casters. Anytime adds pop up in any dungeon, caster dps blows melee out of the water until it's back down to ST. Should just fix it to where both melee and casters/ranged can do the same AoE damage and single target damage. Then, no one can complain anymore.

That way anyone can pick up any dps class for anything. They shouldn't fix one end without balancing out the other.

OR design fights that require AOE as it should for casters to shine here and there even after being over geared for the fight? But then it's a dead end for summoner anyway since blm is too op for more than 4 targets.

[Cebo]

Coil as a whole? Or just final coil? people could have done COB and SCOB without a melee (or just one for a specific situstion). If ranged dps could match melee dps output, most groups for raiding would opt to have no melee or just one for LB like a lot of groups did for COB. It wasn't until SCOB that some groups brought more than one Mdps and it started to become balanced between 2 rdps/1 mdps and 2 mdps/2 caster dps groups.

Let's not forget that back during first coil, there were only two melee classes to choose from, and one was bottom tier. Dragoon deservedly got their buff.

But you're also ignoring the fact that most of first coil was melee-unfriendly, hence the prevalence of BLM/SMN/BRD comps (which also maximized Foe's damage). Mechanics like Rot on T2 (if you did it legitimately), clockwork soldiers' physical resistance on T4, and dreadnaughts on Twintania pretty much favored ranged heavy groups.

Since then however, starting really from Titan Ex and on, more encounters have favored melee over ranged. Reason for that? High movement fights hurt BLM's and SMN's uptime more than any melee job. Take for example the Nerve Gas mechanic on T11. This is a big hit to DPS for BLM and SMN, but a marginal hit for all melee. If it weren't for the Gravity Ball in phase 2, there would be no reason whatsoever to take any caster here. Even on standstill fights melee are beating ranged by a good 50 DPS margin, so heavy movement fights are now just widening the gap even more.

Ideally, ranged and melee should be doing as close to the same amount of DPS on a standstill fight/target dummy. That should be Square's goal for balance. Not, "melee should do more because they have it tougher," or "SMN's should do more single target than BLM because they have AOE."

[Minorinz]

That should be Square's goal for balance. Not, "SMN's should do more single target than BLM because they have AOE."

Except BLM's ST and AOE is better than a summoner's.

[Sunako]

Against dummy melee can do probably 100~ dps more than casters

[Cebo]

Except BLM's ST and AOE is better than a summoner's.

IMO, the focus should be on balancing single target in a standstill fight/target dummy. Obviously different encounter situations will favor one class over another, but that is fine. AOE is what BLM's bring over SMN, but SMN brings more damage in situations with large health adds where we can multi-DoT, like Levi EX, T1, Nael, etc. We can also do more damage on the move, albeit at the cost of our mana from Ruin 2. But on a standstill fight, Square should try to bring all classes' single target DPS as close as possible. We don't really have a "Patchwerk" fight like WoW as a barometer, although T8 was probably the closest.