You are not a fail.

[Mindylou]

agree with op 100%

this is the type of player attitude se needs to LISTEN to and build content around

[Snugglebutt]

I do not yet have a tank but when DRK comes out I will have one, at that time there will be no speed runs unless EVERY single member of the group wants it, not if one person wants it and not if two people want it etc. Everyone must be in agreement. If no such agreement happens then no speed run, simple as that because no-one when joined the queue if for example in DF (unlike PF might) agreed to a speed run prior to joining so they should not be punished or picked on when never agreed to it beforehand.

The individual has same right as the others opposed to that individuals choice in my opinion so unless the entire group is in agreement then it won't be a speed run if I am tanking it. Mob rule and bullying will not be accepted in groups I tank for of which you can probably kick me using that mob rule but I will not betray my own principles in such situations and would rather be kicked forcing you to find another tank instead of being complicit in bullying another player who never agreed to speed run before entering the dungeon.

[Solsanna]

I have no issue with people who are unskilled, not confident, or whatnot. However, I do have a problem with someone adamantly refusing to participate or perhaps try something new purely because it's not what they want. That, is selfishness. If your group is doing something, and you're in DF, you need to bite the bullet, and work like a team. To cooperate. It's not about you. It's about US.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

lol, I only use this "Tactic" when I get a Smart Axx Tank or Evil Troll Healer who thinks everything gotta be a speed run. You'll know if I mean business if I'm in AF gear with my level 60 bow. Better go slow. lol

I wonder, if we started a totally different discussion insid this thread, if half the people would even read it, since you and I are quoting each other now.

and good to know, if I see you in AF, and you haven't said anything in party chat to me, you're geting a lecture missy! hahahaa.

:S

We also still need to run a dungeon or raid using the PSN party! that way if I go to fast you can literally SAY "Hi Misen to F yourself" hahaha

[Noni]

@Dashuto: I agree with your last statement, however I have been called out many,many times for putting my parties in jeopardy using holy. Tanks flip out if they go below 50%.(I dont think they realize I can bene anytime during holy.) The problem with all of this is that White Mages are now damned if they do and damned if they dont...so I now have to ask what is expected of me every run because clearly not everyone shares your opinion. Calling a healer bad because they choose not to deal damage is wrong in my opinion. It takes a while to get a feel for "stance dancing", but once you do it adds a new and enjoyable element to the job. What really annoys me is that as healers we are expected to heal and do damage, yet most players dont even have enough consideration to move out of an aoe. There needs to be more consideration on both sides.

[ClaireAbigail]

agree with op 100%

this is the type of player attitude se needs to LISTEN to and build content around

You want se to build their content using the lowest common denominator of the population? No thanks. Se should build it around to people who wants to do either speed run or normal.

[Dashuto]

Calling a healer bad because they choose not to deal damage is wrong in my opinion.

I called them rude in this thread. I have never called a healer bad in party for not using holy. Actually, at the start of dungeons I usually ask if they want foe or not, when DPS does not include smn/blm. If they don't answer or say no then I drop it, that is the full extent of my party interaction on the matter.

I agree with what you're saying about damned if they do and damned if they don't. There's a definite expectation there now, /especially/ from the tanks. Its compounded by the fact you'll see tanks that don't pop any defensive cooldowns when they super pull, expecting the clutch holy as they finish their run. Benediction does not have such a timer, but without playing white mage- they would never know. So instead they just get ticked!

[Sapphic]

My point is that a) the game should be played as intended, b) no one should be made to play in a way that they are uncomfortable with, and c) no one should be harassed because they do not meet the expectations of another for playing.

What if the party is uncomfortable with how you want to play? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing? Forcing your playstyle onto the rest of the party.

[Solsanna]

What if the party is uncomfortable with how you want to play? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing? Forcing your playstyle onto the rest of the party.

You haven't been reading the thread. That's "not their problem".

[NyarukoW]

No you're not, but you're also not trying your best

This is so bogus. First of all "best" is NOT even properly defined. They are trying their best to not wipe the party. This just an irresponsible snipe at the OP.

...
Point- it goes both ways and both sides need to learn to compromise and stop acting entitled and selfish.

Too many people fall for this bogus false equivalenve over and over. Look you cannot push a string. The undergeared can't instantly be geared nor can the inexperienced become instantly experienced. Forcing them to compromise to go faster than they are able is wasting time from wipes to walk back. Other than the trolls, no one is sitting around AFK trying to be slow or wiping the party on purpose. Whereas, you can speed run only if everything lines up perfectly, but you can always go slower. Doing half pulls instead of full pulls will still be an efficiency improvement.

What if the party is uncomfortable with how you want to play? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing? Forcing your playstyle onto the rest of the party.

More illogical false equivalance. You can not force people to not speed run, anymore than you force peoplpe to not wipe, but the flip side is very much possible and happen plenty of time, when people force speed runs, wipe party, and often followed by cussing up storm and then rage quitting.

My point is that a) the game should be played as intended, b) no one should be made to play in a way that they are uncomfortable with, and c) no one should be harassed because they do not meet the expectations of another for playing.
...
Frankly though, I really dislike speed runs, and especially forced speed runs. I do not find them enjoyable experiences, nor do I enjoy being abused by some dps who wants to push things by pulling the trash ahead of us to force the pace. If you want to go find fun new ways of doing things, go make a PF group for it, duty finder is meant to be there to help players find others to play with, so you can't expect players there to be ready for a mega pull or speed run.
....

I actually find the speed run to be an interesting challenge, but I absolutely despise the speed runner. Especially the type that just runs off without a word and it is even more glaring when they speed off without protect. When that happens, I immediately switch to the new interesting challenge, i.e. what can I do the make sure the group survives but the speed runner dies. Watching the brazen DPS get toasted by mob is too easy and usually they are not brave to volunteer. Typically it is the speed running tank, so I'd E4E, reg, medica2, keep the rest of the party up and then holy spam until the mob is dead along with the tank preferably right at the last hit. Then they get to take the walk of shame back to group while I get to recover my MP.

I don't main heals, but rather I fit that "SMN healing" mode where I need to "always be casting", so it be either overhealing or better yet DPS. So if the tank want to pull big, they'd better be able to take the big bunches of hits so everyone else can max DPS right? ... But not really, then what kind of bogus speed run is this? Better try to communicate first and not be a bullheaded speedrunner. See the problem is not the speed run, but the speed runner, especially when they are non-communicative. What shame is there, or is it so hard to say, "may I pull big?" What are they scared someone one might say, "wait, benediction is still on cooldown" or "need more mp"?

You want brutal honesty ? You being uncomfortable with doing speed runs is not my nor anyone else's problem and it doesn't entitle you for me or other to accomodate your playstyle. Sorry but you're not that special.

I hope you are not that unfortunate tank that will be making that walk of shame back to the party. Go ahead be silent, but you are not that strong, you'll be dead in the time I can get off one more holy. The healers are no more obligated to accomodate the stupidity of the big pull.

...
Its also a chicken and egg problem where you can't have one without the other,
People won't take you to coil without experience, but you need experience to actually beat coil. Go figure.

This is why I always advocate that player need to be more open, inclusive, and accomodating. Stop calling people bad, fail, or "not trying their best". Different players are all at different levels of play, both gear and experience. The DF is not for speed runs. I still remember my firs time in WP, doing SCH healing, back when WP was the place people went for speed myth runs, that was before brayflox hm speed run was thing to do. I got vote kicked before the first boss as soon as everoyne wiped on that first big pull. I joined back and got the same group and the tank left after a few choice words, and the DPS kept on cussing at me. But the replacement tank we got, told the DPS to be be quiet and everyone needed a place to learn and gear up, and so this all part of that effort to pay it forward to help bring more players into the fold.