Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Romsca]

Sleigh, try running LoTA and at the Vassagos, stand in the middle and dot all three, or even do BCoB turn 1 and manage dots on both snakes after the split. Summoner smokes black mage, nah everyone, when it comes to this type of fight.

[mvenom]

Gee, a lot of BRDS doing 400-500 DPS and not crying, I wonder why. Maybe it has something to do that BRD are almost imperative for Paoen alone and is an amzing support class. I think that might have something to do with it. If you're going to make stupid illogical comparisons, you might as well stop. What Akiza says is true. The initial burst is high on Summoner but usually, after the 4-5 minute mark is drops, and it drops to a pretty low feet in comparison to other DPS but BRD. I don't know why this is an argument anymore. It's crystal clear now that Summoner gets outdamaged by every DPS class but BRD (with good reason), does not bring any real useful utility and therefore it needs to be receiving fixes. I don't know why this threat is going on and on.

Not sure if people are trolling or what. No class keeps up the burst dps. Bard was just "extreme" example since its dps drops so much.Blm's dps drops after int pot + RS cd's are gone. Ninja same thing, drg same thing, any class, same thing. Might as well stop reading this or I might get braincancer from all the stupidity.

[Akiza]

Difference between other DPS classes and Summoner is they can make up there DPS and Summiner can't when Summoners DPS drops it continues to drop without anyway of recovering. Black Mage can recovers from the DPS loss and is better able to sustain there DPS with a Thunder procs, Fire procs and Flare. Summoner has nothing to recover the lose DPS when they dip into there bottom after 4 min Summoner's DPS is around there lowest point.

Int pots + rs cool downs affect Summoner as well .

[Sunako]

can they please fix the pet issue on shiva <_<
i'm tired of having my pet eat stacks and die eventually both scholar pets and summoner. Does anyone know how to avoid those stacks on pet?
Also the food issue with pets, why can't pets get buffed by food? it's really silly how everything is faulty now that the itemization is garbage.

I usually move the pet during weapon swap(sword/staff). After that keep it in the middle, pet can survive with one stack.

[Romsca]

Difference between other DPS classes and Summoner is they can make up there DPS and Summiner can't when Summoners DPS drops it continues to drop without anyway of recovering. Black Mage can recovers from the DPS loss and is better able to sustain there DPS with a Thunder procs, Fire procs and Flare. Summoner has nothing to recover the lose DPS when they dip into there bottom after 4 min Summoner's DPS is around there lowest point.

Int pots + rs cool downs affect Summoner as well .

Yes and that is easily fixed by an increase in our mana pool by increasing how much mana we get per point of piety. At 4k mana, Aetherflow will return 800 points every minute and I believe the in combat regen is around 80 points every ~3 seconds, that's a total of 2400 mana per minute. That big of a pool summoner will sustain a lot longer and be able to maintain their dots across multiple targets better.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Yes and that is easily fixed by an increase in our mana pool by increasing how much mana we get per point of piety. At 4k mana, Aetherflow will return 800 points every minute and I believe the in combat regen is around 80 points every ~3 seconds, that's a total of 2400 mana per minute. That big of a pool summoner will sustain a lot longer and be able to maintain their dots across multiple targets better.

Im going to be honest. Fixing our mana pool would be great, and a huge step foreward but i feel like (and this is just feels here, so i could be wrong) we have a scaling issue too. Its most likely just all this spellspeed on our gear, but yeah- i feel like something is off damage wise too.

Might just be me though.

[Romsca]

snip.

Yes I agree with you that damage scale needs to be looked at, most likely just weapon damage needs to be tweaked. Increasing our mana pool/regen would be the fix for our sustainability past the 4 minute mark as Akiza is pointing out. I feel spell speed is actually useful for our class just not right now due to mana management issues. I'll use the Vassagos in LotA as my example. I stand in the middle of the room which allows me to put dots on all three Vassagos. I'm going to do less ruin spam because I have to maintain three sets of dots. Also going to forego fester in favor of energy drain to keep mana up. A 2 second cast instead of 2.5 is a huge difference in keeping up / managing those dots and allows extra ruins in between. Now I don't want so much mana that I can sustain that type of damage output indefinitely, but there should be a sweet spot.

The class doesn't need such drastic changes as some are suggesting.

[Minorinz]

Either move your pet to the center with you, or just Sustain it. You have to move it for the arrow mega-attack or it will die. It's definitely a hassle but SMN can do really well in Shiva; unfortunately, like all fights, BLM smokes it, making all the pet microing and manipulating Shadow Flare to have good upkeep feel pretty pointless on a personal level.

moving my pet is a dp sloss since garuda and if the tank fails with ifrit during bow time, well, ifrit is dead. I'm pretty sure u know why moving garuda is a dps loss...
how about they fix the stack issue =D

[Sunako]

moving my pet is a dp sloss since garuda and if the tank fails with ifrit during bow time, well, ifrit is dead. I'm pretty sure u know why moving garuda is a dps loss...
how about they fix the stack issue =D

Garuda have 1 sec cast time and 3 sec recast time. You can try move your pet during that 2 sec free time so it is not dps loss.

[Kieren-Dohla]

I'm not saying I don't agree with things you said. I just enjoy the job. And it use to seem pretty damn good in dungeons using Bane etc. Soldiery gear was pretty good for Summoner, Poetics gear seriously hurts it with all the excess spell speed and accuracy.

All that accuracy may be needed in final coil.

I know there are ways to work around the poetics gear problems. Crafted gear with meld and drops from World of Darkness and I'm working on that but still I have felt like my effectiveness has gone down and I don't do anything beyond second coil.

I've noticed it in the higher level dungeons, I feel like blm's make me useless.

But it not SMN's fault that SE hasn't addressed these problems.

But until then I understand they are not good for final coil. It's just sad. It's a fun class.

I find BLM rather boring and simple. I'm not putting down ppl who like BLM, just how it feels to me. On the other hand playing it I see the power.

I just hope SE isn't gonna let SMN die a tragic death from which it never comes back.