Speedrunning: Status Buffs and Aggro Management.

[RayneBoemir]

To be honest yo should be keeping an eye on the health of the mobs in the enmity window, and use your judgement on the usage of regen. On my white mage I have no problem using regen,and make sure it is not on the tank for the next pull; however I do agree that when people rush they tend to do the most idiotic mistakes. I had a tank in AK HM pulling a bunch of mobs, and he left some right in the middle of those huge vines that hit you. Well I couldn't hit them cause they were out of line is sight.

Conclusion: Play intelligently.

[RayneBoemir]

Why didn't he just click it off? Silly tank

Takes time to click it off. If you are any White Mage of worth you won't cast heals over time when you fully well know the regen is still going to be on the tank after the mobs are killed. It's really not very hard

[RayneBoemir]

Face pulling is dumb. Especially for war who can use a combination of flash and Toma to gather without burning all their tp for the overpower spam to come.

I do agree with this a tank should always be using enmity moves as he runs thru the mobs. Warrior can use Flash and so can Paladins. Paladins can use sprint since they don't need TP for AoE enmity generation; thereby reducing incoming damage while pulling multiple groups.

[RayneBoemir]

Dosnt matter what happend before/during/after.

The tank took off with the assumption that everyone in the party knew or was willing to even perform a speed run.

"Hi im going to speedrun thru this, is that ok?"

If only more people tried using that once in a while things would be so much nicer.

While this is true I have asked many times if speed running is ok and I get the silent treatment. If I see any combo of mage + anything I assume it's a speed run. If I see a monk + no mage I am not doing a speed run. If I see any undergeared people I will not do a speed run.

[Ophie-Mio]

Uh..... Y didn't u stoneskin urself then pop shroud and wait for tank to rip hate off of you? U can use benediction for whoever drops pretty low 1st.

What? You do know that at those levels, a regen that pulls groups of 3 mobs, would still mean a wipe regardless of whether or not she used stoneskin on herself, right?
Even with a swiftcasted Stoneskin, the OP still would've died if the tank didn't pick them up enough. Depending on her, her gear, and the mobs fanciful crit rate, she would have dropped no matter what. And if she tried to prevent a wipe initially, the Bene would only have helped so much.

Stoneskin doesn't build noticeable emnity so u could have shielded urself till tabk flashed or whatever thus preventing that wipe.

1.) Have you ever used Stoneskin on a tank just as he pulled? Acts like a regen and immediately gets you smacked. It does have noticeable enmity.
2.) Read again above how a stoneskin on her would have only helped so much. Obviously the tank couldn't get the mobs off her and thus led to the wipe.

If ur going to use medica 2/ regen in " speedy " runs then u better know how to survive utilizing EVERY possible saving grace skill u have and not just be a scrub healer who never uses swiftcast unless they need to raise 1 person.

This statement of yours is just mean for the sake of being mean.
I'm a final coil healer and I know how to do my job. I can use every possible means to save myself and if the tank doesn't get a mob off me, I cannot save myself. There's no way a whm who has used Benediction can pop off a spell fast enough to save themselves. If they pop PoM and cure themselves, the mobs will all flock to them still while the tank attempts to deal with the herd. It'll end up in a cycle of death all around. Healers just aren't built for sustained hits in their normal gear. Vit melded accessories won't matter if your equipment still makes you squishy.

Its how u tackle the situation, stacking some vit "doesn't hurt" ur overall value in speed runs.

Stacking vit also affects the effectiveness of your cures. Every cure needs to push it in a TBD wiped. So stacking Vit and your cures suffering for it don't make you a good healer. Using pure vit accessories (such as Noct) as a healer (or any job, really, besides tank) in regular dungeons is what scrubs do who don't have the correct gear for their job. Inflating your HP doesn't equate to value.

Ur heals r only as good as how fast u can cast them if the tank is taking damage at a rate faster than ur cast time ( even with PoM). Cuz if u live longer and don't require to spam cure 2 on urself then obvs tank will have an easier time peeling them off of u.

This last part here has nothing at all to do with the OP or this thread. She didn't say that she couldn't keep up. She said that she got smacked because of regen/Medica II and the tank couldn't peel them off her.

[Lemuria]

Takes time to click it off. If you are any White Mage of worth you won't cast heals over time when you fully well know the regen is still going to be on the tank after the mobs are killed. It's really not very hard

It's not really very hard to keep aggro with regen active either... at least if you're a tank worth a damn anyway.

I've played as Warrior and Paladin both and never had to click off regen. A simple Flash or Overpower is all it takes to keep aggro since heals, by default, accrue aggro at a far reduced rate to other skills. If the tank can't even do that, they should just sling their axe. There's a reason tanks get aggro boosting skills like Defiance and Shield Oath.

In this particular case, the tank sucked.

You do know that at those levels, a regen that pulls groups of 3 mobs, would still mean a wipe regardless of whether or not she used stoneskin on herself, right?

See, that's where I beg to differ. I've pulled aggro a few times on healer due to regens or cures and it's easily survivable for the short time it takes for the tank to regain aggro. Even throwing up a self-regen should be enough to keep you intact for the duration. If the tank isn't getting the aggro back, then you did more than just fire off a regen.

1.) Have you ever used Stoneskin on a tank just as he pulled? Acts like a regen and immediately gets you smacked. It does have noticeable enmity.

Sure, it's noticeable in that instance but then even if you cured a single HP on the tank it would be 'noticeable' in that instance. The tank doesn't actually have proper 'aggro' at that point so their enmity value is essentially zero. Any action can pull hate from an unclaimed mob which is merely linking with its fellows if it targets the person they're hitting. Stoneskin, like all buffs, has a fixed enmity value which is rather small in comparison to even a lowbie cure.

I'm a final coil healer and I know how to do my job. I can use every possible means to save myself and if the tank doesn't get a mob off me, I cannot save myself.

This is all fine and dandy, but we're talking about roulette 4-man dungeons here, not pulling the highest echelons of the coil onto yourself. Those mobs hit for significantly lower damage and it's rare you'll find a WHM who can't survive a few hits unless they're poorly undergeared. As a coil healer, you should be used to dealing with far stronger enemies with far nastier abilities, so this would be a walk in the park for you.

Stacking vit also affects the effectiveness of your cures. Every cure needs to push it in a TBD wiped. So stacking Vit and your cures suffering for it don't make you a good healer. Using pure vit accessories (such as Noct) as a healer in regular dungeons is what scrubs do who don't have the correct gear for their job.

Vitality accessories are the last bastion of a healer who simply can't be bothered to defend themselves. I run in MND accessories and I'm sitting on around 5.4k hp in dungeons. Even with 4.5k the 'extreme' dungeons would be a cakewalk.

Honestly, in this instance it just sounds like the tank had tunnel vision and neglected to pull mobs off the healer. Speaking as a healer, when you DO inevitably pull aggro do your tank a favour and move towards the tank instead of running away. The tank needs a chance to get the aggro back. Every time I see a DPS or healer running AWAY from the tank I just want to cringe at the stupidity.

[Almalexia]

Regen is a red herring. This is a WAR who doesn't have Flash on his hotbar. It's free, 360-degree enmity. What else could a WAR possibly use?

[Ophie-Mio]

See, that's where I beg to differ. I've pulled aggro a few times on healer due to regens or cures and it's easily survivable for the short time it takes for the tank to regain aggro. Even throwing up a self-regen should be enough to keep you intact for the duration. If the tank isn't getting the aggro back, then you did more than just fire off a regen.

I agree with you on this. However, I was speaking from the perspective of the event that actually happened in this thread. My statement only reflects on the situation where a healer gets hate from a regen and the tank fails to get the mobs off the healer. The "more than a regen" is going to happen if you're getting smacked. You're gonna cure yourself, which if the tank and you are fighting for hate, then there we go. We have the wipe situation that the OP most likely experienced.

This is all fine and dandy, but we're talking about roulette 4-man dungeons here, not pulling the highest echelons of the coil onto yourself.

I was talking in reference to my own experience and how I relate in an extreme dungeon to the person I quoted. I was informing them that even good healers can only stay alive for so long. From my own personal experience in DF, at extreme dungeon levels, if I pull hate, if the mobs are still on me after 10 seconds, I'm most likely going to die. Fyi, I'm speaking from the stand point of I've never been in an expert DF group where the tank pulled anything less than 2-3 groups at a time. The mobs of a 4-man do do less damage but on an average healer, if the tank doesn't get the mobs back and there are 2-3 groups hitting them, they won't survive long.

Even with 4.5k the 'extreme' dungeons would be a cakewalk.

Yea, and yet we have the OP's story where apparently it wasn't a catwalk.

Honestly, in this instance it just sounds like the tank had tunnel vision and neglected to pull mobs off the healer.

This is the point I was making to Yumi Umi, who believed that it was the healer's fault for what happened. The tank neglected his duties and what Yumi Umi said did not actually offer any reasonable advice nor actual belief that they understood what happened with the OP and their story.

[NyarukoW]

Tanks like these speed runners, what I like to do it let them die just as holy the rest of the mobs dead. This way I get the time to recharge mp, and stone skin everyone else. I also make sure to stone skin everyone else in the group first and then protect. The tank that wants to run off can get wasted by the mobs. Anyone that thinks tanks set the pace is deluding themsslves, the pace is set by the group as whole and what the group is comfortable with. I will regen, and medica 2 and keep up on everyone at all times to the best of my ability. The tank needs to wait for it to wear off before pulling the next group which lines up with the time to recharge mp, or else they better do their best to keep aggro, so I can cleric stance and spam holy.

I have a tank myself, and I would never string the healer along and run them into crap. The tanks primary job is to keep aggro and especially keep aggro away from healer if the tank is to survive, and manage the CDs to help that. I'd make sure to cover the healer in pinch if comes down to that. I don't know what those war tanks are thinking trying to turn everything into brayflox hm speed run, I much rather have PLD tank.

[Alistaire]

Responsibility of both to an extent, as a healer try to gauge how long a fight's going to take and don't regen near the end of it.

He only used proximity (as opposed to Flash/Overpower/Tomahawk etc.) to aggro the mobs.

This is the biggest thing though. A WAR not using overpower at all is epic-level derp.

On the crazy side of the spectrum acting like this:

Tanks like these speed runners, what I like to do it let them die just as holy the rest of the mobs dead.

...well I'm just glad stuff like that is perfect grounds for dismissal.