I think its time BRD get some loving

[Sessurea]

no changes needed on our kit. just stop nerfing our WD. lol

yep this. Getting same boost weapon attack going from 115 ha to 125 yoichi as I got from going from 110 to 115. Gee thanks se xc

[Airashii]

The most I'd like to see is just quality of life, such as faster song casts, swiftsong running through zone transfers, the ability to turn songs off with my GCD not available.

I would love to see a small increase in WD. But the first stuff I'd rather see changed is listed above this.

[Doctor-]

I guess we will see how MCH? MCN? compares in the expansion.

[DoubleD]

just what are you trying this time... ? dungeons and 24 men raids are designed so that any composition can clear them. No enrage so sluggish groups have a chance nevertheless (less true in WoD but still not hard to succeed there). No mechanics which require coordination (again, slight exception in WoD this time) except maybe not being braindead (people not killing skellies in LotA first boss..) but that should be a given. One could walk in a 200ish dps party and still clear everything in this game besides Coil. Your "argument" is irrelevant.

I have a job and don't have the time to play 24/7 so I like when stuff gets done efficiently.

So myself and most of the guys I play with try to play efficiently to clear stuff faster so we can do other things.

Plus JP server's tend to Blist people with crap DPS. I gave an example of 260 DPS BRD on T10, but he was Blisted by the whole group even though they got a clear and he didn't die.

(also 20% isn't a "large" debuff. You could cancel that if you wanted by using one of your buffs. Bard is the class with the largest pool of damage buffs after all.)

20% is huge. And even with all those damage buffs our DPS is pathetic compared to everything else.

Bard damage had been nerfed because back in 2.0 there was no reason to bring anything else in a group. They were close to top dps, huge utility, no drawbacks, etc... They nerfed the damage. ONCE.
it is NORMAL that a bard will never reach other dps's numbers.

I have no problem with the 2.0 nerf outside of the Foes nerf. And all those idiots complaining that got ROD nerf are paying the price for it having to spend a ton of gil just to gear up with Vit materia for T13. They wouldn't need that much HP if they had ROD + Dragon Kick. I don't really care. ROD is a dead skill now unless you're really in a jam and need some clutch Stone IIs from your WHM which is tough to accuracy cap.

Also, you have not been nerfed more with i115, then i135. The scaling is the same for other dps and bards. You have less at start, so you gain less at each increase. Overall, your dps stays at the same % behind the other dps, and that's (once again) normal. of course the bigger the highest numbers are, the bigger the gap will grow. It doesn't mean you're nerfed more.

Ok, I'm not going to do actual math, but say an equal skilled / equal geared Bard will do 30% less DPS than DRG.

At x ILVL DRG does 100000 points of damage.
Bard does 70000 points of damage. Ok, tolerable. Barely.

Now at x ILVL DRG does 500000 points of damage.
Bard does 350000 damage.

So... what would the point be in taking a bard? At something like that it's better for melee to be TP starved waiting for Invigorate recast, and can have the ninja alternate goad.

It's the "same percentage" (even though it's worse in actuality, but I'll go along with you for the example)

I know it isn't really right to do so, but I'll assume you joined the game way after 2.0 (because you joined the forum around 2.4, so I'm assuming here you didn't play before 2.2 at most. Correct me if I'm wrong)

Which means you never witnessed the god-like status of the bards, when they had the same damage as any other dps, plus a god-like Rain of Death (AoE version of storm's path), high mobility, cheated burst damage with pre-nerf IR and B4B, etc etc....

I've been archer since 2.0 day one (didn't play 1.0). So yes, I know our god-like status and I will admit our static
was PL PL WM SCH BLM BLM BRD BRD and we kicked ass back in the day.

And although wrong and f'd up, in most of our PUG groups we banned melee. So I do in principal agree with the 2.1 nerf.

It's just the WD scaling really needs to stop. It was fine at 2.3. 2.4 with the ILVL 135 discrepancy was ridiculous.

And I will admit. Bard is an easier class to play for general content outside 8 man raids. So it is a less common to run into a pathetic DPS Bard than a pathetic DPS Melee, which are really really abundant.

Bard #'s seem "Fine" because more often then not, the melee will not do optimal DPS compared to his max potential.

But when you put an equally skilled/gear Bard vs Equally skilled/gear anything besides SMN, the gap in DPS is just very wide. And it just got worse with patch 2.4.

[dejavutwo]

At x ILVL DRG does 100000 points of damage.
Bard does 70000 points of damage. Ok, tolerable. Barely.

Now at x ILVL DRG does 500000 points of damage.
Bard does 350000 damage.

The problem with your example is that the time it takes the bard to do the same amount of damage as the dragoon is the exact same in both cases. Say it took the dragoon seconds each time to do the stated amount of damage.

Example 1: 70,000 / 60 = 100,000 / x
x = 85.7s

Example 2: 350,000 / 60 = 500,000 / x
x = 85.7s

The absolute value of the difference in dps will grow over time, but as long as everything remains in proportions, there is no real change in the overall balance.

[Vogue]

I agree with this post, I actually suggested months age the idea of giving Battle Voice the additional effect of nullifying the damage reduction penalty of mage's ballad and paeon. Just how Unchained nullifies Defiance damage reduction.

I also suggested in removing all songs from the global cooldown, mainly because it is annoying in some situations and there is no real reason to have their cooldown shared with other attacks.

[DoubleD]

The absolute value of the difference in dps will grow over time, but as long as everything remains in proportions, there is no real change in the overall balance.

That is the problem. Percentages with lower numbers are lower. Percentages when you get higher gear make it worse.

Im not concerned with 550 melee vs 440 bard parsing numbers so much. If you check a parser it also says the total percentage of damage you contributed to the fight.

For each ILVL increase this percentage bards contribute to the fight gets worse.

[DoubleD]

Bard is fine. Last week in T10 our casters did 455 dps and I had 427. That's not very far behind. And considering bard is pretty easy as far as rotation goes, along with being able to prance around all day pew-pewing, we're fine. Really.

Poor Summoners need some love, not bard.

Yes, SMN need help. But DRG gets a buff everytime they complain. Monk got a buff. Bard is visibly getting weaker every patch when we were already the weakest!

[Airashii]

What they should've done for Summoner is make it so they lose the Spellspeed buff from their pet, in place of it, the buff makes their next Fester return MP. But that's about summoners.

Bards need something, not a lot mind you. They only really need like 1-2 more Weapon damage. They'd still be behind in DPS. But it wouldn't be nearly as bad. Most that I feel about the job is that the magical resist debuff should be incorporated into their attacks like other jobs. Example: Blood Letter applies the debuff, lasts 10 seconds. That way, by keeping up your dots, you're also keeping up that debuff by playing the job right by using Blood Letter frequently. It would reward a player for playing the job properly.

I don't think we need something crazy like no penalty for singing... Though, the Battle voice change would be nice, at the same time. I would rather much have the double return on songs. If I had both, I'd love it more. I just don't feel like bards need a huge overhaul, just certain aspects of things should be changed to make the support side of the class, smoother. *mashes song key to turn it off while GCD* TURN OFF ALREADY!

[ChriZirhC]

the real issue is the trend with our WD. yes we are okay right now. but what if the trend continues on? no hell any good bard is gonna wait til there's like 10WD point difference from all DoW classes before everyone realizes we're a gimped class. We're seeing the trend now and we want changes before it continues even further. This is what we are worried about.