The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[NyarukoW]

... Calm down and think...

...
Vigilante justice is not solution ....

What vigilante justice? I got no batman powers or what not. People organizing and doing the things they need to get the troll to stop is not vigilante justice.

When the hunt group know to let the early puller get killed by the elite mark and we get to see the corpse of the early puller that is more than proof enough of the early puller. You can call things over shout without resorting to verbal abuse. Simple macro: /shout <t> is early pulling, hold fire, do not res.

...though the naughty part of my mind just wants to be an 'early puller' ....

I doubt your friends in a well liked FC likes yours appreciates getting flak from everyone else on the server. It is not a definition you or I get to decide, but when everyone else on the server is mad at you, good luck to you. We had to throw the trolls out of our FC before it made terrible for the rest of us.

[Cadmar]

What vigilante justice? I got no batman powers or what not. People organizing and doing the things they need to get the troll to stop is not vigilante justice.

When the hunt group know to let the early puller get killed by the elite mark and we get to see the corpse of the early puller that is more than proof enough of the early puller. You can call things over shout without resorting to verbal abuse. Simple macro: /shout <t> is early pulling, hold fire, do not res.

Batman didn't actually have any powers. He was just super smart and used awesome gadgets.

[MirielleLavandre]

When the hunt group know to let the early puller get killed by the elite mark and we get to see the corpse of the early puller that is more than proof enough of the early puller. Y.

This won't work on our server -- as soon as people see the mark's name change color, they attack for fear of not capping seals, which is hard enough as it is now with the number of people hunting. Even if your own 'hunt group' and a few other little hunting parties agree to not attack or heal or raise, the other 50-60 randoms and aetheryte sitters will all attack no matter what. With so many people not even needing or caring about hunt LS, I also doubt anyone would care about being 'shamed'. Just saying - it is a nice thought that everyone will play nice together, but as I said above - it doesn't work out that way in reality.

[NyarukoW]

This won't work on our server -- as soon as people see the mark's name change color, they attack for fear of not capping seals ....

Funny thing this has happened more than once on our server, and I was there to witness it. It probably won't happen during prime time hours when all the kiddies are on, but they are playing with fire if they try to push their luck. But more often than not, I've seen people asking for it to reset and getting people to hold fire, and let it reset and seen it reset successfully for the benefit of everyone.

[Dwill]

What vigilante justice? I got no batman powers or what not. People organizing and doing the things they need to get the troll to stop is not vigilante justice.

This the definition of Vigilante:

vigilante
/ˌvɪdʒɪˈlæntɪ/
noun
1.
one of an organized group of citizens who take upon themselves the protection of their district, properties, etc

What you described is literally the definition of the word.

When the hunt group know to let the early puller get killed by the elite mark and we get to see the corpse of the early puller that is more than proof enough of the early puller. You can call things over shout without resorting to verbal abuse. Simple macro: /shout <t> is early pulling, hold fire, do not res.

You literally dodged the topic of what can be considered early. Mobs were designed to be killed by a specific amount of people so if a group of people meets the requirement to kill it, you are in no right to demand that they do not pull. There's no fixed time about what can be considered early so your little "Let's shame people on the forums" stance because they do not adhere to your personal guidelines defies any definition of logic. I get it, you're mad that someone pulled before you got there. Big deal. Put on your big boy pants and move on to the next target.

[Giantbane]

Mobs were designed to be killed by a specific amount of people so if a group of people meets the requirement to kill it, you are in no right to demand that they do not pull.

Yes, but mobs *can* be killed by almost any number of people and everybody can still get full credit as long as they're mildly organized. SE has done nothing to change this, and in fact made it easier for more people to kill A & S ranks by increasing their HP. So if someone chooses to kill it before all/most active hunt participants have been given a reasonable amount of time to get there (give it a couple minutes, depending on how far it is away from the aetheryte) then they're just being selfish and/or an ass at that point.

From what I can see, too many players are tripping over each because they won't accept the practical capacity limit of Elite Marks. This "shaming early pulls" issue is just a symptom of that belief that many feel entitled to having carbontwine right now (as opposed to later when it'll be more widely available). Either way, as I see it, "early pull" = you were too late, move along. And really, if half the server shows up to kill an elite mark, joining in only adds to the problem.

It's more SE's fault than anything. They chose to put highly popular items only on the hunts, causing the participants to greatly exceed the practical capacity limit of Elite Marks.

[Dwill]

Yes, but mobs *can* be killed by almost any number of people and everybody can still get full credit as long as they're mildly organized. SE has done nothing to change this, and in fact made it easier for more people to kill A & S ranks by increasing their HP. So if someone chooses to kill it before all/most active hunt participants have been given a reasonable amount of time to get there (give it a couple minutes, depending on how far it is away from the aetheryte) then they're just being selfish and/or an ass at that point.

People have been arguing since The Hunt has been introduced about what is early and what isn't, even though Square Enix have mentioned that mobs were intended to be killed by a fixed number of players, not a quarter of the server zerging a target and quite frankly, it's not even up for debate for me and I have no desire to continue on this topic further as in this would be an endless loop of arguments repeating themselves.

Oh, of course you can't do it on the forums. But the start of this thread was about the public shaming that happens in shouts after a hunt is killed. Now granted, people are usually way too belligerent and usually aren't very good about their facts when they start screaming in the shout channels, so those sorts of people are definitely in the wrong. It's not that they can't have a public discussion on their server about when is too early, what are the benefits of waiting, or what can be done about those who refuse to follow popular hunt etiquette, but they need to be much more tactful about it.

I still find the concept of people getting emotional about the Hunt overly childish but there isn't much to be done about people and chat channels in MMO.

But what is or isn't early is purely a matter of opinion, and thus opinion matters. On the other hand, "Vaccines are bad for you because a lot of people believe it" is very obviously Argumentum Ad Populum because opinion has no bearing on whether or not that's true.

Opinions matters, for both sides. Yet during whatever people consider early pulling, only the popular opinion seems to matter which goes back to my previous statement.

[Giantbane]

I still find the concept of people getting emotional about the Hunt overly childish but there isn't much to be done about people and chat channels in MMO.

Yea, people get way too worked up. If they want to pursue this, most people really need to chill out and have a more rational discussion about it.

Opinions matters, for both sides. Yet during whatever people consider early pulling, only the popular opinion seems to matter which goes back to my previous statement.

It's really a matter of etiquette. I think etiquette is sort of defined by popular opinion. Most of the bickering on the forums/in game is in an effort to sway that opinion. (and/or plead with SE to avoid this entirely by having alternatives to hunts or allowing hunts to scale to the participants better).

[Zohar_Lahar]

It's more SE's fault than anything. They chose to put highly popular items only on the hunts, causing the participants to greatly exceed the practical capacity limit of Elite Marks.

Popular it may be, the developers have made it clear they only want the carbonstuff to be obtained in restricted amounts. So with that in mind, what makes the players feel they are entitled to have Carbontwine right now rather than patiently wait their turn?

[Giantbane]

Popular it may be, the developers have made it clear they only want the carbonstuff to be obtained in restricted amounts. So with that in mind, what makes the players feel they are entitled to have Carbontwine right now rather than patiently wait their turn?

If they really wanted it in restricted amounts there are better ways of restricting it than relying upon their players to be dbags towards one another.