Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Dwill]

lol xD

Well thought out counter argument.

Give up arguing with the likes of Vivi, Dwill etc. They will never see the whole picture.

Hence why I am done replying in this thread, would have more luck getting blood from a stone

And yet you do ? I highly doubt it. This seems more of a case of "They disagree with me so they don't get it" than anything else. If it isn't, then do feel free to use your superior insight to share the developer's picture of their ranged caster classes.

I actually did mention the eye for an eye and blm circumstances, skim reading is bad.

If it was mentioned, I missed it so apologies.

smn mobility doesn't infer using ruin 2, losing 300 damagish isnt that big of a deal on a movement its far far less of a deal than losing 1100 damage.

If you're not infering on Ruin II then what ? There isn't much we can do when moving if it's not time for a Fester (Meaning all 3 DoTs absolutely need to be up when we move else, Fester is a no go.) or clipping Bio which is a useless thing to do unless the situation calls for it where it would fall at a decently high duration(Titan's Gaol comes to mind).

I'll make a list to make things a bit clearer:

SMN utility:

* unique dps Resurrect (I can argue my apoc doesn't matter anymore too, cause well I don't have to use it in my static... at all, but shit happens so I do.)

We may be the only DPS to bring an in combat raise but again, it's brought by healers we are better suited to use it (Don't waste 25% of their MP pool to use it, as an Elezen Summoner, my MP pool is 2983 and Raise is a 798 MP spell.)

*70-80% dps uptime on cc lock (SMN UNIQUE utility btw) this includes, blue orbs, titan goals, twintania blues, ramuh tethers + stun, leviathan dives, turn 8 missles, turn 7 shreik... you get it the list goes on and on and on. I guess you can say schs are capable of this as well.. but yea, not quite the same thing as you are different archetypes , this is pretty much our manaward/wall usage... almost... different but equal... well except this doesnt actually have a cooldown and is just the job being the job

* higher mobility, summoners have at worst 70-80% uptime on move and at best 100% I don't see how this is a arguable, it isnt based on rng either... its fairly free range try doing savage 8 for example and hitting snowflakes tower... if I'm bound as blm I sometimes lose my umbral/astral even @.@

That's way overexagerating. Worst case scenario, all of our DoTs have run out and Garuda/Ifrit are the only one attacking and we can't buff them so it would be 25% at worst (I'll admit that this particular scenario doesn't happen often but if you want to mention the worst scenario, this is it). And from all the parses I've seen so far of FCoB, Black Mages don't seem to struggle half as much with mobility as people are making it out to be.

* smn eye for an eye is better @ 33% more uptime

Eye for an Eye has the exact same potency whether it's used by a Black Mage or a Summoner. Enhanced Eye for an Eye only shortens the recast timer, not the potency. Even then, I don't know a lot of people that uses it on CD but for the sake of fairness, you'd be correct.

* smn virus is better

Again, Supervirus is used by the Scholar when it's a necessity.

* pet helps with splitting damage from hits like twintana fireball darnus beam etc

Fair point.

BLM has:

lesser e4e
lesser virus
apoc
manawall/ward
proc movement
aetherial manipulation but ya you can just walk
both jobs have sprint?

Which is still a decent amount of utility. Also having theoretically infinite MP is a huge benefit.

the damage difference is not 12% without procs, that was proven wrong

If it was proven wrong, I'd like to see a source for this. Not saying you're wrong but everything so far I've seen has been pointing toward that discrepancy.

Again, let me ask you: Black Mages has better single target, better survavibility, better AoE and infinite resource and all said damage having nearly no ramp up time whatsoever which makes it much easier for them to deal with adds. Does the meager difference in utility justify them having all that ?

[Sen_Terrechant]

Again, let me ask you: Black Mages has better single target, better survavibility, better AoE and infinite resource and all said damage having nearly no ramp up time whatsoever which makes it much easier for them to deal with adds. Does the meager difference in utility justify them having all that ?

Aparently it does. I can understand not wanting to become the class that nobody wants to take to raids, but that dosent excuse letting the problems SMN have fall by the wayside.

Not to mention BLM has its own problems. Why for gods sake does the fact we are ranged casters mean that melee DPS can do 100 DPS more then us?

Anyways, SMN has problems. Anyone that fails to admit that isnt playing SMN in high caliber raiding.

[Dwill]

Aparently it does. I can understand not wanting to become the class that nobody wants to take to raids, but that dosent excuse letting the problems SMN have fall by the wayside.

Not to mention BLM has its own problems. Why for gods sake does the fact we are ranged casters mean that melee DPS can do 100 DPS more then us?

Anyways, SMN has problems. Anyone that fails to admit that isnt playing SMN in high caliber raiding.

I will acknowledge that Black Mage have their own issues as well (Sup Firestarter and Thundercloud not stacking so procs get lost all the time). And melee is an entire new issue that I don't to even get started (which I am on the same stance as you are).