The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[NyarukoW]

yup. Because people keep getting hung up on the idea that the op and others are trying to silence free speech or something,.... Wishing cancer on a fast puller is not justice. It's harrassment. ..... We're talking about the people who insult, defame, mistreat and encourage everyone on the server to also insult and mistreat people.

There are many ways to name and shame and many ways that are NOT harassment or verbal abuse. So telling everyone to stop i.e "needs to end" as the thread title says is expecting those of use who have suffered to remain silent. BTW you can see many of my posts have on many occasions clearly stated that verbal abuse needs to be reported.

What trolls fears is having no audience. Calling them names and verbally abusing them can likely get you in trouble. But identifying them together and blacklisting them is the right strategy against their actions. They can always make an apology to everyone and demonstrate better behavior at which point people may choose to un-blacklist them. But as along as they are stubbornly insisting on their right to troll everoyne else for lulz, it is not happening.

[Lycelle]

Well people are stubborn and believe they have to the right troll everyone else on the server without consequence. That is NOT going to happen. Calling it "naming and shaming" doesn't change the fact that other players have the right to call them out for their bad behavior and blacklist them if they have to, and the trolls should be scared of the organized way that people working together can do counter the trolls disruptive and detrimental antics.

We've been saying th---No. I'm done. Nope. Ya'll have fun with this.

[Battlewrench]

You know its almost nice to see people so passionate about something....though I think this is now officially a lost cause. You guys are just arguing your opinions. Nothing wrong with that but 38 pages you would think someone would say agree to disagree and move on.

[Snugglebutt]

I think we should just all agree on the following points:

-If the people who were out searching for hunt mobs (ie the people maing hunts happen) don't make it to the mob in time when it gets discovered elsewhere, it was pulled early, thus discouraging them from going out to look and instead encouraging aetheryte camping.

-There is no rule against early pulling, just as there is no rule against excluding players who pull early from parties. No one "HAS" to play with anyone else in this game and if you find their behavior objectionable you are free to exclude them.

-Scaling mob HP would solve the issue (as it as solved it in other MMOs).

No I do not and cannot agree on the first two parts of your post. I stated why in post #366. Firstly just because group/person A never made it to the mob before pulled by group B or person B does not mean was pulled early. Again you cannot pull 'early' unless a predetermined time limit is both present and accepted by all players of which I pointed out why in my previous post and coming to a consensus after the pull is not in any way at all valid because such consensus was not reached by every single person present during and after as to what that predetermined time limit was prior to pulling in the first place.

So I very much disagree with your first part, on your second part...the whole thread is about 'how' people are going about excluding people. Should you be allowed to blacklist someone who did something you do not like? Sure. Should you spread vindictive accusations on public chat across entire zones or the entire server about that person which publicly shames them, creates harassment and abuse towards them? No. It is fine to inform people someone pulled so that people know the fight has begun, it not however alright to claim they pulled 'early' or tell people vindictive and negative ways to harass and punish them using mob rule when 'early' is subjective.

As I stated above there is a big difference between saying "someone pulled" and saying "someone pulled early", "someone pulled early so blacklist them", "someone pulled early so do not resurrect them" which in all three latter examples it is not only subjective to claim it was early in the first place but also has negative and accusatory connotations attached and does lead to harassment. The first one does not imply the puller did anything wrong, the other three are done for the sole purpose of harassing that person with the accusatory and negative connotation added by saying they pulled "early". I gave an example in post #366 as why the last three should not be done.

The last part of your comment about HP increase I have no major problem with trying but it could be open to abuse and if that is the case then a better solution needs to come about.

[Zedd702]

Instead of bickering on the subject I invite you all to come here to discuss an idea to remedy the complaints of early pulling etc...

[Thayos]

-There is no rule against early pulling, just as there is no rule against excluding players who pull early from parties. No one "HAS" to play with anyone else in this game and if you find their behavior objectionable you are free to exclude them.

This. Of RB's three points above, this is the one that matters most.

It really doesn't matter whether a player chooses to acknowledge/believe in what most people refer to as "early pulling." All that matters is you have the right to pull when you want, and others have the right to acknowledge that you pulled, then decide whether they'd like to interact with you in the future.

That's ALL that matters... the rest sorts itself out.

[RichardButte]

Again you cannot pull 'early' unless a predetermined time limit is both present and accepted by all players of which I pointed out why in my previous post and coming to a consensus after the pull is not in any way at all valid because such consensus was not reached by every single person present during and after as to what that predetermined time limit was prior to pulling in the first place.

I think that, if the players who are out there searching for the mobs don't make it in time, the pull was too early.

And this has a cumulative negative effect because it will encourage these players to aetheryte camp.

And as someone mentioned in this thread, it's entirely possible for a hunt mob to spawn and NO ONE finds it for 20+ minutes because everyone aetheryte camps because no one wants to miss it.

You know how everyone who pulls early does so because they don't want to waste time? Yeah, now they're REALLY wasting time...

[Kosmos992k]

I think that, if the players who are out there searching for the mobs don't make it in time, the pull was too early.

How does the person pulling know if everyone that was actively hunting in the zone for that mark is already there or not?

The point Snugglebutt was making is that the definition of 'early' is entirely subjective. Or as Douglas Adams put it, "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." The whole discussion revolving around the word "early" is pointless since there is no universal frame of reference. What is early to you, could be perfectly on time for someone else, long over due to yet another, and in the middle of a bite of sandwich for that bloke playing with a controller in one hand and his lunch in the other. Your opinion that something is early, is entirely accurate - for you. But not for everyone.

So, how does the person pulling the mark know that not only are all the active hunters in the zone, regardless of LS membership, present for the pull, but also that they are all ready to pull? Obviously, they can't know any of this at all, all they can know is whether their own team is ready to go. So, once they are ready, why should they wait? How long should they wait? How do they know when to stop waiting? Is Nyaruko going to 'port in to give permission to pull? These and many other fascinating questions will go unanswered because while I was asking them in LS chat, someone pulled the mark, and now I get no credit. Kill the heretic!

Because this idea of a "early" pull is a social construct, it's extremely subjective and context sensitive. In effect, it's really only relevant within a specific subgroup. For instance, let's say you have two hunting LS, and players from both find an S mark and announce it on their respective LS. There are no players who are members of both, so neither LS is aware that the other has already announced the mark. After a couple of minutes the active members of LS 'A' have all arrived and confirmed that they are ready, and so tank 'A' pulls the mark. LS 'B' was a little slow getting there, and only a few of their members had arrived yet. The news goes up in their LS that the mark has been pulled. Suddenly the shout channel errupts with outrage as players from LS 'B' teleport into the area and realize the mark is almost down. Someone shouts that tank 'A' pulled early. Kill the heretic!

Did tank 'A' pull early? Obviously it depends entirely on which Linkshell you are a member of. In other words, it's completely subjective. There is no objective definition of an "early pull"...

P.S. I'll throw in an additional Douglas Adams quote just for fun, since it might be applicable to the way that some posters (not you) on the SE forum behave.... "I don't believe it. Prove it to me and I still won't believe it."

[KaedrianLiang]

There are players that do it intentionally to be foul. they enjoy the publicity, it fuels their existence. That is what an early pull is.

On the other hand, early pulling is mostly a myth.

Why is it that slow people feel they are entitled to something they didn't even find to begin with?

Tardy players are (in any combination):

1. didn't take the shortest route.
2. looked away for 10sec-2min
3. waited for someone else to port.
4. sitting around in a city listening on calls.
5. in the middle of another activity. crafting, quest objective, afew minutes from completing a dungeon.
6. the list is endless lolcharlimit

[RichardButte]

How does the person pulling know if everyone that was actively hunting in the zone for that mark is already there or not?

If 60 seconds have elapsed since the mob was first reported in the zone, it's been enough time. The problem is that you're lucky to get 30 seconds (at least on my server), as the aetheryte crew tends to immediately run out and pull.

This is a definable event: as each player who was previously hunting for mobs instead chooses to camp the aetheryte, the amount of time it takes to find a spawned mob will rise, meaning time will be indeed be wasted, but not from waiting an extra 30-60 seconds before pulling.