The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[Izsha]

this is the community working together to try to build a working system for the benefit of everyone.

and this is the point you forget. Not everyone in the community agrees ot wants to be a part of this "community system." It's open world content. You cannot enforce a broad community idea of how hunts 'should' be hunted. People are free to choose not to be a part of you're utopian hunt world and you have to accept that their choice to ignore the majority in a fabricated system is JUST as valid as your choice to take part in it. You are simply no more right than a quick puller. There is no right and wrong in an arbitrarily created system that no one signed a contract to participate in.

[NyarukoW]

and this is the point you forget. Not everyone in the community agrees ot wants to be a part of this "community system."....

If they don't want to part of the system they will be blacklisted. If they continue make trouble for everyone else on the serve their reputation as the early pulling troll will be well deserved.

....
There is no right and wrong in an arbitrarily created system that no one signed a contract to participate in.
....

If you wanted to word that way, then lets point out that all laws or legal system are arbitrary and no one born into this world signing into any contract with agreement to any of those laws. And as current events would have it, ISIS create refuse to go along with the arbitrary laws that the rest of the world is trying to adhere to for the most part, but like the Somali pirates, you know how it will play out eventually. And laws don't delineate right and wrong or morality, it is just an agreement to negotiate competing interests from competing powers.

So at the very least early pulling trolls can not expect people to be silent about their bad behavior, and coming here to forums to tell people to be quiet about it is a non-starter (a.k.a. this thread title "The Hunt Public Shaming need to end"). Verbal harassment can be reported to the GMs and is actionable by the GMS. But just simply saying "<player X> has early pulled please blacklist" is not harassment nor is it against the rules. Nor is it against the rules to say "hold the fire let the early puller <player X> die and do not res." And if the hunt LS and hunt groups are disciplined, they would know better to than to attack before the pull time, and they will see the corpse of <player X> on the ground, with cheer all around. And believe you me, I've seen this happen on more than one occasion, but it seems a new troll has to learn this the hard way every once in a while. If the early puller troll feels ashamed, that is because they still have some good sense in them to know that screwing with others for lulz is not right.

[Kosmos992k]

**snip of irrelevant conflation of issues and terrorist groups....**
Verbal harassment can be reported to the GMs and is actionable by the GMS. But just simply saying "<player X> has early pulled please blacklist" is not harassment nor is it against the rules. Nor is it against the rules to say "hold the fire let the early puller <player X> die and do not res."

Actually, I'm almost certain that inciting others to blacklist another player would constitute actionable harassment. I'm also of the opinion that your instruction to other to allow a player to die and not be resurrected by anyone could also be considered harassment. Obviously, that would depend on the GM's judgement of the situation - as is always the case...

I know! Just trying to help clear up any confusion others may be having.

NP, you put it way more succinctly than I could.

[NyarukoW]

....Actually, I'm almost certain that inciting others to blacklist another player would constitute actionable harassment. I'm also of the opinion that your instruction to other to allow a player to die and not be resurrected by anyone could also be considered harassment....

It is some really twisted terminology you are going by. When we blacklist the early pulling troll that is harassing the rest of us all at once, we are not calling him names, badgering him, or stalking them. We are just doing what we can to avoid them. And no player, healer, SMN, or otherwise (people shouldn't have to waste their gil on phoenix down for the trouble maker) is ever obligated to res anyone, on what grounds can that ever be harassment. It is actually because the res of us are usually too nice and too eager to res, and made habit out of it that we have alert ourselves in this case. Seems like you are grasping at straws there.

**... terrorist groups....**

FYI, playing the devil advocate roll you like so much, not that I agree with them, but they would dispute your name calling of them as such, because they claim to the a new state as S isn iSis. They are just claiming they have the right to exist.

[Kosmos992k]

It is some really twisted terminology you are going by.

No, look. Please understand this. There is no twisted terminology here, it's very simple. If you incite others to blacklist a specific player, you are in fact harassing that player - regardless of what you believe they have done. If you talk privately to your friends and suggest everyone blacklist the offender, that's a private discussion, but if you put that discussion on a public chat, you are effectively asking to be reported. The same goes for suggesting that the perceived wrong-doer not be raised.

Stop assuming that I am somehow trying to attack your every word. I'm simply pointing out that both of these things would be something that someone could very legitimately complain about to a GM if they happened on a public chat channel, and may be actionable.

I am almost 100% certain that publicly inciting others to blacklist a specific player would be both reportable and actionable if it happened in-game. But, you know what, ignore my advice, or not, it really doesn't bother me at all.

[NyarukoW]

...If you incite others to blacklist a specific player, you are in fact harassing that player - regardless of what you believe they have done.....

That is really funny. How often do we ask people or have even been asked by SE and GMs to blacklist gil sellers? And we are in fact harassing their means to generate actual income and put food on the table for their starving kids. I do NOT think you have grounds to consider the act of blacklisting or even asking people to blacklist specific trouble makers to be harassment. And coordinating a strategy to not res the early pulling troll is not harassment because we are always free to communicate with each other in game about how we handle an in game challenge. This is fair game because the early puller troll is really playing PvP against the rest of us in the hunt LS and the larger community as to who get credit on the elite mark.

[Kosmos992k]

That is really funny. How often do we ask people or have even been asked by SE and GMs to blacklist gil sellers? And we are in fact harassing their means to generate actual income and put food on the table for their starving kids. I do NOT think you have grounds to consider the act of blacklisting or even asking people to blacklist specific trouble makers to be harassment.

You know what, I give up, you are a lost cause.

[Lycelle]

Snip Snip Snip.

Do you understand anything that she just posted to you or are you just spouting nonsense and babble? Let me break this down into an actual law as set by the United States Government.

What Are Defamation, Libel and Slander?
Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

Typically, the elements of a cause of action for defamation:

A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement);
If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
Damage to the plaintiff.
In the context of defamation law, a statement is "published" when it is made to the third party. That term does not mean that the statement has to be in print.

Damages are typically to the reputation of the plaintiff, but depending upon the laws of the jurisdiction it may be enough to establish mental anguish.

Most jurisdictions also recognize "per se" defamation, where the allegations are presumed to cause damage to the plaintiff. Typically, the following may consititute defamation per se:

Attacks on a person's professional character or standing;
Allegations that an unmarried person is unchaste;
Allegations that a person is infected with a sexually transmitted disease;
Allegations that the person has committed a crime of moral turpitude;
While actions for defamation have their roots in common law, most jurisdictions have now enacted statutes which modify the common law. They may change the elements of the cause of action, limit when an action may be filed, or modify the defenses to an action for defamation. Some may even require that the defendant be given an opportunity to apologize before the plaintiff can seek non-economic damages.

In this case the word we are looking at is Defamation When you actually make an attempt to ruin someone's reputation in-game by shouting about something they may or may not have done and you have 0 legitimate proof to actually back your case. This leads to what is called to harassment, kind of like he-said, she-said.

Gossiper A: Did you know Joe has Aids? Well he might have aids, I don't know for certain.
Gossiper B: No. But I do now. Let's tell people.

Gossiper A and B then begin spreading false reports of Joe having Aids to the general public. The people hear it, word spreads. People start to avoid Joe until word reaches to his friend and his friend tells him of the situation.

Friend: Hey Joe do you have aids?
Joe: No? Who told you this?
Friend: Some gossipers down the street.

In this case Joe would be the plaintiff as he's now trying to defend his reputation in this case (his sex life) from being tarnished by people who simply felt like making an accusation. It's the same thing as trying to slander someone for early pulling. They could have done it or they could not have done it. To try to make them seem like public enemy number 1 is a form of harassment. You are going out of your own way to see that they personally are made miserable through your own actions that YOU alone started. So in this case it is a 1 on 1 issue. You and the X (X being the early puller). It is not by your own right to see to it this person is punished for their actions, but SE's. File a report and move on.