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  1. #1
    Player
    NyarukoW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Ai Hana
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    ...
    And to be clear. There is NO REASONS AT ALL to accommodate someone who is argumentative, ...
    There is no proof that that OP is argumentative. Just unsubstantiated character assassination. They don't have to air their dirty laundry here, but without you can't make a call between the two. All I see the typical static turning on people for nonsensical reasons as it usually does. And besides people who can debate and discuss get labeled argumentative and it does NOT mean they are going to cause problems for the group. The static should be a group of equals I'd hope and not some mini personality cult with a dictator in charge so people should be able to discuss things even if it seems argumentative.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Tiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,645
    Character
    Tiggy Te'al
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 53
    Once again it is a fallacy to just assume the OP is the correct one here by default. I simply responded to your comment about accommodating. What if he was the problem. Hmm? What then about being accommodating. You're just arguing from the full out assumption that OP was right.

    Quote Originally Posted by NyarukoW View Post
    All I see the typical static turning on people for nonsensical reasons as it usually does.
    Removing a toxic element is the exact opposite of non-sensical. It's the primary reason to remove someone followed by skill issues. Assuming that all statics that boot someone did so for nonsensical reasons means you lack any and all context to why you might remove someone. You're making assumptions and acting on them. This is a good example of ignorance. Your total lack of understanding of the raid environment makes you yourself a failure at being accommodating. Something you yourself constantly advocate. The reality is you don't want to be generally accommodating. You want things to be accommodating in one context only. The context of raiders being more accommodating to others. Yet you never ask for the same the other way around. You argue from a limited point of view so your solutions come from that same limitation. Accommodation works both ways son.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    NyarukoW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Ai Hana
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    Once again it is a fallacy to just assume the OP is the correct one here by default. ...
    Removing a toxic element is the exact opposite of non-sensical. ..
    I did NOT assume the OP is correct one. I am no taking side here. But it sure seems you know who the toxic element is. Truth be told, as in real life, the toxic element often is those in the position of power, or those making the wrong decisions. The so called raid leadership can often be the toxic element, but they will never remove themselves, but instead they will blame it on everyone else. I've even seen them jump servers becaue the rest of us are too scrubby for them and static falls apart because now we are only 4 or 5 of 8 and left to pick up the pieces. And by accomodating, all I am asking for people to be more inclusive and play nice with each other so you can play together. After all this is an MMO. The only thing I know so far is that there is nothing really static about a static unless you consider all the noise static.
    (0)
    Last edited by NyarukoW; 01-28-2015 at 07:25 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Krr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    741
    Character
    Murah Jhida
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    Once again it is a fallacy to just assume the OP is the correct one here by default.
    Isn't it also a fallacy to assume that someone gets removed from a raid solely because they are "toxic"? There are a number of interpersonal reasons raids have conflicts and it's seldom so cut and dry that attitude alone is the reason a player is removed.

    In 4+ years of raiding, "my raid group cares more about loot than me!" and "the player we removed was <insert unlikable personality trait here>" are the top two excuses I see everyone jump to when an interpersonal conflict occurs. Most players won't admit or don't realize they have a personality problem, even if it's the truth, and 90% of raid groups will chalk a player being removed up to "poor attitude" regardless of what their actual internal process is. A removed player being accused of an "argumentative attitude" says as much to me about the raid leadership's view of others as it does the actual player.

    Like, okay, a player is "argumentative". This statement could technically be accurate in any number of situations:

    -The player is, genuinely, an ass, who makes big problems out of small issues.
    -The player starts non-constructive fights whenever criticized.
    -The raid leader(s) are stubborn, unresponsive, and even noncommunicative when presented with new ideas.
    -The raid leader(s) start non-constructive fights when criticized, and pin such criticisms as being "overly argumentative".
    -Someone, at some point, had an argument with someone else, and got kicked out of a raid for it.
    -The playstyles between the player and the group just plain don't mesh, resulting in conflict on a regular basis (the NUMBER ONE problem with most midcore raid groups.)
    -Other players regularly abuse the 'problem' player, which excaberates their 'bad' attitude or causes outbursts.

    A lot of these interpersonal problems can and will be caused or excaberated by performance issues a player might have by having any number of otherwise-managable physical ailments.

    I don't see jumping to the conclusion that either party's story is wholly accurate to their word as logical, yet people here are doing it one way or the other. Real-life raid dynamics are never as cut and dry as "x or y is a bad person because, blah blah."
    (2)
    Last edited by Krr; 01-28-2015 at 08:45 AM.