Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[ShinryuReishiki]

I'm the only caster in the FC so dont have anything to compare to, and I dont know if its viable to compare to melees, on our first t13 kill I was sitting at 444 ish according to brd in group, while drg was at 430 and bard at 400 ish. IDK what to say, others in my group cant play then?. Not like im out gearing them, im gimping myself with i125 book (because ss+acc lol i130), dropping miasma2 from rotation to save mp and not using ruin2 as often as I'd like so I need ballad at 1st divebomb phase.

SMN benefits greatly in the add phase by other's DPS not being high (Relatively speaking); lots of multi-DoTing to benefit from. I was i115 for my first clear, and I was i126 last week. My DPS overall has stayed the same. I do more DPS on the single target portions now, but because we've all geared up, the adds melt now. I don't get that same amount of multi-DoT uptime I did in the early clears.

[ViviAnimus]

I don't think anyone should claim that SMN is a complex job, but it is one of the harder classes to play in my opinion. Actually Black Mage to me is the easiest class as of now. It did take me a while to figure stuff out and how to maximize DPS, but once you do, it's very very easy. Mobile fights are also very easy on a BLM, it just is. Of course, it does take some time getting used to a fight, but I always found SMN a bit more complex and also, frankly, more entertaining to play.
Making classes easy to play and achieve higher DPS isn't the right philosophy either. If shooter game had a class that was super easy to master and it did the most damage, then everyone would pick that and it would be unfair as well. It goes both ways.

But indeed, let us look at the classes objectively. It is just a fact that BLM is better than Summoner in everything this game has to offer pretty much. Maybe T7 and T9 still, although I really doubt it. So yes, a small buff is in order in my opinion and I think it is perfectly justified. If BLM can have better AoE, then it shouldn't have better ST. It also has better utility. SMN needs to be buffed to the extend that they surpass BLM on ST. I would like that idea because I would go SMN on certain fights and BLM on other fights.

[mvenom]

SMN benefits greatly in the add phase by other's DPS not being high (Relatively speaking); lots of multi-DoTing to benefit from. I was i115 for my first clear, and I was i126 last week. My DPS overall has stayed the same. I do more DPS on the single target portions now, but because we've all geared up, the adds melt now. I don't get that same amount of multi-DoT uptime I did in the early clears.

Ah yea that makes sense, didnt even think of it. Kinda wish SE would reply to this somehow, and not wait til 3.0.

[ViviAnimus]

They won't wait till 3.0, it's been mentioned in another thread. We'll most likely see some tweaks in the next patch.

[mvenom]

Sry might have missed it then, can you link?

[Judge_Xero]

Those numbers are off, you are (and I just mathed it myself) ignoring ice phase. I honestly challenge any blm on here to beat a good summoner without using firestarters and thunderclouds.

Your total comes out to only 107 Potency/s -> Other than the Thunder being listed as the wrong potency it all looks ok.

I don't main BLM so I'm confused about the Astral/Umbral mechanics maybe.

Astral III Increases Fire Damage by 80% and increases MP cost, and reduces Ice Magic Damage by 30%, but increases it's casting/recast speed? (and prevents MP regen)

Umbral III greatly increases MP regen, increases MP cost of ice spells, reduces Fire spell costs and reduces Fire Damage by 30% and reduces Cast/Recast time of Fire Spells?

Neutral spells, Thunder/Scathe are unaffected by Astral/Umbral?

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Maybe it's because of the higher Spell Speed, but I thought that the ice phase was only 2 casts. (another forum member told me ice phase is only about 5 seconds)

B3, T2, F3, Fx5, B3, T2, F3, Fx5

Edited: After looking more thoroughly at the BLM times.

Umbral Reduces the Cast/Recast of Fire Spells by half
Astral Reduces the Cast/Recast of Ice Spells by half

Just going to use the base 341 SPD values

B3 3.5s, T2 3s, F3 1.75s, Fx5 2.5s, B3 1.75s, T2 3s, F3 1.75s, Fx5 2.5s

96 Potency/s -> F3, B3
98 Potency/s -> T2
122 Potency/s -> F
Total -> 112 Potency/s

SPD Adjusted 2.3 -- B3 1.61, T2 2.76, F 2.3, F3 1.61
104 Potency/s -> F3, B3
107 Potency/s -> T2 -> Not exact since you will be clipping your Dot now - but due to T3 24s you will be able to skip a Thunder cast anyways. (Thundercloud)
133 Potency/s -> F
Total -> 122.5 Potency/s

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I think what I did prior was include the Astral Buff on some attacks that it shouldn't have applied to, to reach 130 Potency/s.

But....

Selene Adjusted Potency/s @ 2s -
120 Potency/s -> F3, B3
123 Potency/s -> T2 - Not exact since you will be clipping your Dot now - but due to T3 24s you will be able to skip a Thunder cast anyways. (Thundercloud)
153 Potency/s -> F
Total -> 141 Potency/s

60s Averages -> 131.75 Potency/s

Yeah. SMN never gonna reach that.

[ViviAnimus]

Sry might have missed it then, can you link?

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124...=1#post6333229

[Dwill]

Deal with it. People are getting real tired explaining the same thing to you over and over again. There is no big mmo out there that has a caster/ range outdamage melee dps anymore. So if you dont like being outdps'ed, then change your class to a melee.

Except you know, that's not true at all since the biggest MMO out there disagress with you. It just looks like someone doesn't want to lose their top spot even if they are not in more danger than their ranged counterpart just because of the class they decided to pick.

Edit: And actual data also proves that range can also perform just as well as melee nearly 50% of the time.

[ViviAnimus]

I am actually a little outraged, I just did some parsing again (5 attempts on both SMN) ilvl 125 with 115 weapon. BLM = 502 on average / SMN = 457 on average over a 6-7 minute parse. And on my SMN I even used poison pots in my contagion, like seriously?

[Xisin]

you should be getting more than that on your summoner i think. I know some summoners sitting at atleast 480ish with i125 on t10, bvut ya bard is there + multi dots.

Also the only real nitpick about your math is, is that you need to be sure that you are calculating the 1.6ish second cast on blizz 3 as a normal gcd wait of 2.3 or w/e your adjusting to.

edit: on the spells casts during ice: sometimes on a slow ice tick transitioning in you have to use one more spell, it all depends on where your ice tick starts and the timing of it, if you get a late tick then you need to fill with blizz 1.