An Introduction to Dragonspeak

[Seif]

While I do appreciate and respect the work gone into this I am worried based on the examples that we EN players are missing out on detail.
If the examples thus far are accurately translated then what's more worriesome is that it seems the character and the mood of the delivery has changed quite drastically in the process.

Having said this crotique I do commend the translation team for listening to players and dropping the old english that was in 1.0 in favor of clarity.

This situation seems a bit similar in the way it seems the translators need for creative freedom has stepped on the clarity of the message itself. Keep up the good work guys.

[Tiggy]

That's the point. From the English translation I think the key points are pretty clear. Midgardsomr made a pact with Hydalyen, and thus he has claimed us for himself and has started to test us. The skirmishes between the dravians and Ishgard about to erupt into a full on war. The version the Japansese got basically added "..but everything will be fine!" whereas our version adds an element of suspense.

I do think you should read the Japanese translation. There was a fair bit more explicit information than "but everything will be fine" and the fact that we were debating on mumble what Midgarsomr really meant should never even have happened due to the fact the Japanese had a clear and concise conversation with the dragon that made it all clear. No room for debate. Only facts. The disparity is the problem. Some people being able to discern the true meaning doesn't change that disparity and doesn't change the fact we shouldn't be debating the meaning of his words at all since the Japanese players never had to do that either. Our experiences should be the same in this regard. Good for you that you were able to get what he was saying. I had the right of his words as well when we debated it on mumble. That doesn't mean I have to be so full of myself for being right that I ignore the plainly bad translation we got instead.

I'm happy to do the work for you - it's not simple but the meaning is definitely discernible without referring back to the Japanese. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lrpwWCKnEc

I'm sorry but in your zest to patronize the crap out of me you took my complaint as some sort of tacit admission to not understanding what the dragon said. Don't make assumptions about people. My complaint in no way shape or form means "I didn't get it."

[MercuryD]

I really do find it interesting that much of this argument comes down to "I read a translation!" with that second hand translation being the grounds for judgment. Personally, I have watched it in both and I think the issue comes down to that in Japanese much of this information is spelled out whereas in English the information IS there though it is up to the player to find it.

Also, please don't make such harsh judgments if you are not, in fact, able to understand all of the dialogue for yourself without the use of a 3rd party.

tldr; both translations are great and both convey the same info.

[Tiggy]

tldr; both translations are great and both convey the same info.

The simple fact that this debate exists in this thread, others in the general forum, reddit, etc shows that to not be the case. It may be for you, but clearly there is a problem beyond just you.

[axemtitanium]

Quoting myself from another thread.

It was an authorial decision to make Midgardsormr's relationship with the player more ambiguous in the English version, perhaps to set up a more dramatic reveal later. The EN team is no less a part of the lore/story team than any other language, including Japanese. The story in this game is a collaborative effort and the EN team decided to characterize EN Midgardsormr in this way, making him more mysterious, terse, and ambiguously adversarial than his JP characterization. You are free to dislike that authorial choice, but it's no less "correct" than the Japanese version because all people involved are full-fledged "authors" of the work.

The Japanese script is not the "original" script which was translated into English. Japanese and English language speakers are all authors who collaborated to create the original script in two languages. There is no "translation team", there is an English language team which worked on the English version of the script. No translation ever happened and therefore there is nothing lost in translation.

[ExKage]

the fact that we were debating on mumble what Midgarsomr really meant should never even have happened due to the fact the Japanese had a clear and concise conversation with the dragon that made it all clear. No room for debate. Only facts. The disparity is the problem. Some people being able to discern the true meaning doesn't change that disparity and doesn't change the fact we shouldn't be debating the meaning of his words at all since the Japanese players never had to do that either. Our experiences should be the same in this regard. Good for you that you were able to get what he was saying. I had the right of his words as well when we debated it on mumble. That doesn't mean I have to be so full of myself for being right that I ignore the plainly bad translation we got instead.

This is one of the biggest points for me. If it should be designed to be vague and having people "theory-craft" about it, it'd be different. The fact that two different audiences reach different conclusions means something went wrong. This isn't the end of Inception where you're supposed to wonder about the stupid spinning totem and wonder if it's a dream. One clearly portrays Midgardsormr as one who is testing your worth. The other seems to mock you, taunt you.

As such, my reaction to Midgardsormr who is mocking me is one made out of indignance. "This asshole is making fun of me! I'll show him who's who!" The reaction to the other Midgardsormr is different. It's curious and wanting to prove my worth. I'm not doing it to stick it to the man.

[Jacost]

Honestly, I think that losing a point or two was worth it to give the big guy an actual personality beyond "textdumpguy".

[Gilthas]

The simple fact that this debate exists in this thread, others in the general forum, reddit, etc shows that to not be the case. It may be for you, but clearly there is a problem beyond just you.

This debate doesn't exist because of any problems in the translation.

This debate exists because some people treat Japanese like a sacred language and have no idea what a proper translation/localization is. Calling the English version a "plainly bad translation" is simply ridiculous.

[Balipu]

Did we also take into account the cultural context? You know like how Japanese indirectness is different than english indirectness. Like how not bad in english means not bad, and not bad in japanese means fucking trash. As all professional linguists I also had a course called cross-cultural pragmatics. It was very enlightening.

[Wadoka]

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.