I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

[Wobi]

From what it sounds like is the English players got a much better version in our localization, I found it very easy to understand. At no point did I not understand what he had done to me and what he intended to do. We can argue semantics all day long, but SE approved our translation regardless and literally no amount of crying about it will change that fact. If people had issues understanding the english version of the story then I feel bad that subtlety is lost on them.

In all honesty this topic needs to be dropped and forgotten, if you want to change things then try and get hired on the localization team. Don't be upset if the devs themselves change it from the JP version too much for your liking though.

[Hyrist]

But it isn't. If you pay attention to what Midgardsormr is saying, it's exactly the same thing in both languages. The only difference is that he's far more verbose and exposition-dumping in Japanese than in English.

I played it in English first and had no trouble coming away from that scene knowing that a) he was testing us rather than trying to harm us, b) that he was doing so in agreement with Hydaelyn, and c) that the dragons were attacking because of what Ishgard was doing. It's all there in the English text, they just aren't beating you over the head with it the way they are in Japanese.

Sorry, but I question that, the translation is quite different. Perhaps you may have deduced his meaning within context, but I submit to you perhaps that it was not due to his words in a vacuum.

The mention of a repeated Sin is omitted in the English version completely, it's not even inferred.
The intent to resume attacking is omitted in the Japaneese version, it's not even inferred.

English Midgarsormor omits completely the fact that he is testing the player character. Instead it is inferred only that he is bound to the Player character by compact, and kept from harming the player character by oath.

There is subtlty there, but it does not lead to the same points as translated text, not on its own.

Player may discover the points you are listing is from knowledge outside of the original conversation. You put the last cutscene of 2.4 (or what the Astrologians say in previous cutscenes) and what Midgardsomr says and deduce that the sin may be repeating. That's subtly on behalf of the writer, not the Wyrm, by my gauging.

You may deduce that Midgardsormr may be putting you through trials after Keeper of the Lake when he questions your motive, or deduce as such when you realize the minion appears to be the same as the Storyline Mount revealed at Fanfest, or even due to the fact that he's now effectively permanently by your side - why else would he become a minion and not just some specter-ed head or disembodied voice?

It's an interesting question to think about at least. I do wonder if that's by design of the Dragon Language, leaving the player to pull the pieces together from a greater context than the conversation had?

I pay close attention to each scene, as I thoroughly enjoy the story depicted. And I can't honestly agree with your assessment of his speech, specifically the one given at the Keeper of the Lake. That's why I'm making this feedback. I'm honestly not expecting a grand rewriting, or a complete change in writing course, even for dragon speak. Just a bit more care taken in how scenes deviate from one another in translation. Either the other languages more stylized and obscure, or English language a touch more literal.

In all honesty this topic needs to be dropped and forgotten, if you want to change things then try and get hired on the localization team. Don't be upset if the devs themselves change it from the JP version too much for your liking though.

That's... not how customer feedback works. I understand your intention. But you may be mistaking feedback for a tantrum. A developer worth their salt listens to player feedback and makes feasible adjustments as they deem necessary. I am bothered by this, but not so much that I will leave the game in anger.

[LunaHoshino]

The mention of a repeated Sin is omitted in the English version completely, it's not even inferred.

Yes it is; that's what the whole "sons will pay for the sins of the fathers" line is about. I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that line is referring solely to things that happened in the past, because to me it was quite clear that it's referring to the repeating cycle. Things that my parents did can affect me down the line, and likewise, my actions can affect my future children.

[sarehptar]

Yes it is; that's what the whole "sons will pay for the sins of the fathers" line is about. I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that line is referring solely to things that happened in the past, because to me it was quite clear that it's referring to the repeating cycle. Things that my parents did can affect me down the line, and likewise, my actions can affect my future children.

The problem with this is that "the sons will pay for the sins of the fathers" doesn't in any way imply that the sons are also sinning themselves. It implies a cycle of retribution, but not that the sons are in any way personally deserving of that retribution themselves because they are committing the same sins. In fact, the opposite is more commonly implied--when someone pays for someone else's sins, the general connotation is that the person paying is actually innocent and is being unfairly punished for the actions of another.

[Shougun]

Yes it is; that's what the whole "sons will pay for the sins of the fathers" line is about. I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that line is referring solely to things that happened in the past, because to me it was quite clear that it's referring to the repeating cycle. Things that my parents did can affect me down the line, and likewise, my actions can affect my future children.

I also was considering the time frame of 'Sormr's life. Just think about how long he has been living, compared to the life span of us the crime was done yesterday and now they're at it again. With that maybe he doesn't need to emphasize the sentence in past and present tense, it probably wouldn't make sense to him. Of course the "we do not forget" kind of conflicts with that, but not strictly per say... just ... leans against the idea. Its not a hard argument but I could see it being a possibility, time is relative after all.

From the names of his abilities in the fight you can see he has a dislike for us - we're or people like us are being judged for some crime on multiple occasions, mayhap he even includes his death. However, later he singles out Ishgard showing that he knows we're not all part of the system, but sees little worth in us as Ramuh initially did. Ramuh: "hah you guys suuu-- oh maybe you don't WoL, let me test you".

Since there is little reason for him and his kin to like us, I feel the English dialog captures what I feel to be a likely response. He has a personal opinion in this situation, we are kind of crappy to him and not worth much breath like some NPC just waiting for the PC's appearance to divulge the entire plot and previous plot just encase PC forgot to read. Only due to his respect/and or pact to Mother shall he not harm us. Particularly, he insinuates our death would have been too easy (and I believe it, being able to sever our blessing). Further to his dislike, and agreement to Mother, I think the lack of verbose exposition and Q&A time leads well to the idea he is testing us and we deserve little from him, he is not there for our beck and call.

He may not have said all so specifically like the Japanese version but imo the answers are still there, we know he stripped us of our blessing, we know he has an agreement with Mother, we know there is a rise to action against Ishgard, he will not harm us now that he knows our association, he has bound us to him, we know he is watching us, he suggests for us to fight, we know he is reforming and that those who are loyal or penitent (repented) will rejoice, this is the beginning and there will be an end with foreboding pause. After the battle he reaffirms that challenge to action (test), "Art thou a pawn, or a master of thy fate? What hast thou wrought by thine own hands, mortal?". A tremendously powerful and intelligent creature that only has a onze of interest and care for us due to his agreement with Mother.

I understand people's preference for delivery or sameness across culture-- but I feel like I've lost little and gained respect in a world environment (behaves as a character and not a whim to the PC as a convenient dues ex machina plot tool) and on a personal out of game level that I don't need it to be verbosely spelled out just encase I didn't get it. Now to be clear, I'm not saying those who want the other version are saying they can't compile and conclude information or want it because it was too hard, preference does not mean a lack of ability.

Finally I don't think this will deviate plot, he'll talk down to us until or if we can ever curry favor, but still do the same things as the other language clients. He does have an agreement with Mother and did bind us to him, he does not seek our blood, anymore - he just doesn't fancy to wipe our backside like everyone else.

[Hyrist]

"The Sons will pay for the sins of the fathers." Is clear reference to Old Testament biblical adage that mankind is inherently tainted by Original Sin and no child is born innocent. For it to be phrased implies in all Catholic culture that the previous sins carry on, and in no mention that these sins are repeated or in danger of.

It means that Ishgard is guilty by default, not that they are repeatedly committing the same crime. At all. There are other referential phrases that could apply to what you beleive is inferred.

Again, I see little to the contrary on my proposed theory that those claiming to 'figure out' Midgardsormors message did so through deduction of context, not inference of Midgardsormr's words alone, as line per line has already been disseminated and the results referenced in this thread.

[Kazumac]

In all honesty this topic needs to be dropped and forgotten, if you want to change things then try and get hired on the localization team. Don't be upset if the devs themselves change it from the JP version too much for your liking though.

I disagree that it should be forgotten but the heated-ness needs to be toned down. I really like the presentation and style that the localization team has done to the story, the issue is when I discuss with someone using a different language (my wife for example). I'll say something like, I bet x character thinks/feels/will do y. Then she responds with a confused "Why? They aren't anything like that." This is where I have my gripe. Not in the quality of story presented but consistency between versions of the story.

[Hyrist]

I disagree that it should be forgotten but the heated-ness needs to be toned down. I really like the presentation and style that the localization team has done to the story, the issue is when I discuss with someone using a different language (my wife for example). I'll say something like, I bet x character thinks/feels/will do y. Then she responds with a confused "Why? They aren't anything like that." This is where I have my gripe. Not in the quality of story presented but consistency between versions of the story.

Here's a question I'd like to pose to the localization team, slight spoilers ahead for those who have not done wanderer's Palace Hard.

The two predominant quest givers are depicted in English as a same Sex couple - I wonder if they are done so in Japaneese. If so, I applaud them. If not, this is another example of the feedback I'm trying to give. Whether or not it 'appeals' to the sensibilities of all who play, I feel as if the playerbase deserves a single, unified story to share together, from the large sweeping stories to even the small, sometimes uncomfortable parts.

[Calypsx]

I really do prefer the English version of the characters and writing and I'm hoping nothing major changes. I'm not really a fan of the Japanese script.

[seida]

Here's a question I'd like to pose to the localization team, slight spoilers ahead for those who have not done wanderer's Palace Hard.

The two predominant quest givers are depicted in English as a same Sex couple - I wonder if they are done so in Japaneese. If so, I applaud them. If not, this is another example of the feedback I'm trying to give. Whether or not it 'appeals' to the sensibilities of all who play, I feel as if the playerbase deserves a single, unified story to share together, from the large sweeping stories to even the small, sometimes uncomfortable parts.

They are. I watched my bf unlock that quest, he was zooming in on the Miqote and said, "...however you look at it, that's a man, right?", I confirmed and he said, "...why are they putting BL in the game..."

So yes, it is there in Japanese too, I was a bit surprised to be honest. To most JP players it probably feels like fanservice for women rather than a reflection of RL.