Revelations from Final Coil [SPOILERS]

[Anonymoose]

Moose, was "Eorzea!" part of that last line or was it a line on it's own in the lyrics you found?

The lyrics I used were part of some Fan Festival coverage follow-up from Fernehalwes. Leaving out any information that might unintentionally serve as speculation fodder, he clarified that the meaning and origin of Eorzea's name has yet to be revealed. Because we have translations of the lyrics, but don't have the meaning of Eorzea's name, I take that to mean it's not part of "the saviors must perish."

[treuhavik]

The lyrics I used were part of some Fan Festival coverage follow-up from Fernehalwes. Leaving out any information that might unintentionally serve as speculation fodder, he clarified that the meaning and origin of Eorzea's name has yet to be revealed. Because we have translations of the lyrics, but don't have the meaning of Eorzea's name, I take that to mean it's not part of "the saviors must perish."

Hmm... Now I'm curious. Anyway, thanks! If the meaning of Eorzea hasn't been revealed, then it isn't here.

Sah djahs afah an

This line is the trickiest. We were just told that "afah" means "eternal," which I assume means you trace it back quite a bit. Eternal, aeternus, aevum, and then switch the v sound to an f sound, kinda like an altered ever. "Sah djas" I can't figure out at all, however. We've been told it means, "Vengeance will be ours." Anybody got any ideas? If I really stretch it, I can see djahs linking to "just" and assuming "justice eternal / justice of the ages" is a fancy way of saying vengeance. "So justice eternal [will be] ours," maybe? Needs work.

Here's a possibility for the third line;

Sah: Root: salv- English: save Latin: salvus, salvare Example: salvage, salvation, salve --- Reclamation, Mend; Will be I may be reaching a bit far on this one.

Djahs: Root: jus-, jur- English: law, justice Latin ius, iuris Example: abjure, jurisprudence, jury, just, justice, objurgate, perjury --- Justice

Afah: Root: aev-, ev- English: age Latin: aevum Example: age, coeval, eon, eternal, longevity, medieval, primeval --- Eternal

An: Root: un- English: one Latin: unus, unius Example: unanimous, unary, unicorn, unify, union, universe, university --- Our(s)


Salvage, justice, eternal, ours
Salvage our eternal justice.

Salvage - To save, recover
Eternal Justice - Vengeance

"Vengeance will be ours!"


Thoughts?


It seems you've got the first two lines sorted, Moose, those look good.


Now, for the last line;

Mah could simply mean 'Man'. Or, if we really want to stretch it;

Root: mand-, -mend- English: order, commit Latin: mandāre, mandatus Example: command, commend, commendation, countermand, demand, mandate, mandatory, recommend, remand

To commend or mandate is to give, and in mandate's case, with great authority or force. "Royal mandates must be obeyed." I can live with that.

So, since we've already established how 'Morn' relates to 'Mort', meaning death, that leaves 'Narr'.

Now, if "Mah" is 'must' or 'must-give' as I've implied here, "Narr" can't too mean 'give' in this context, like I previously suggested.

Following the trend, 'Narr' could possibly be taken from the root 'Nat-', meaning born, implying that we're either natives or newly born to this land (relative to them). Not sure how that makes saviors though. Perhaps we're Hydaelyn's newborn saviors?


Must give death [to Hydaelyn's] newborns
"[To] The Saviors(Hydaelyn's Newborns) [we] Must [-give] Perish(death)"

[Giantbane]

Thinking about it, if Bahamut was kept summoned by the prayer of the stasis-bound dragons... then what in the name of the Twelve is it that keeps Odin bound to this realm?

I know this is a very late response, but I thought the distinction between normal and elder primals is that elder primals have transcended the need for believers and now exist on their own.

[lololink]

I know this is a very late response, but I thought the distinction between normal and elder primals is that elder primals have transcended the need for believers and now exist on their own.

Which would only apply to Odin then ? Spoiler T12

and Phoenix

[Anonymoose]

I'm gonna put this here so I can quote it later, as this seems to come up a lot and it will be helpful in the future, lol.

Snipped from [Full Interview]

Fusionx: What is the difference between a Primal and an Elder Primal?

Koji Fox: Basically it’s all a matter of length of worship. With primals, it’s all about how you have someone worshiping you and you become that primal and they believe in you and you get your power from that. For the Ixal or the Amalj’aa, it’s the belief that makes the aether combine to summon forth these primals—so when you look at Ifrit, and Titan, and the one’s we’re calling primals, they’re considered very young. They’ve been believing in them for a long time, but looked at in a span of all the eras it’s not that much time.

Anwyll: Originally, we thought it might be more complicated than that, <...> but it’s just has to do with the length of time?

Koji Fox: Basic length of time.

Interesting tidbit that Oda-san allowed into the light? Because only the length of time is involved, maaaybe the existence of worshipers is still pretty important. Maaaybe part of Odin's disappearance had something to do with a prolonged absence of worship.

But if he's back... ehhhhHHHH—PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

[Exodus-E]

Snip.

The fact that he's still here, even without worshipers (or even crystals, AFAIK) throws a monkey wrench on how Primals can materialize in the first place.

Which is interesting, because Shiva already kind of did that (challenging what we know on how Primals are summoned/sustained).
So that pretty much means special cases do exist.

Could it be that he doesn't need worshipers simply because it's not faith/devotion that he needs to keep himself here, but something else entirely?
Or is he similar to Shiva in that he used host in order to manifest himself?

Needless to say, the revelations that will come from this upcoming patch should prove...very interesting.

[lololink]

Could it be that Odin is yet another special case?
Could it be that it doesn't need worshipers simply because it's not faith/devotion that he needs to keep himself here, but something else entirely?
Or is he similar to Shiva in that he used host in order to manifest himself?

2.5 will tell us more but I think Odin feeds on fighting spirit or something like that, thus explaining why he looks like the last player that killed him, he is destroyed but use that energy to come back again and again, untill he reaches his goal, which is taking revenge on Urth, a little like Sin in a way.
He seems to be more like a wandering ghost than a god to me.

[Anonymoose]

The fact that he's still here, even without worshipers (or even crystals, AFAIK) throws a monkey wrench on how Primals can materialize in the first place.

I think the hint was more along the lines of, but that must mean something somewhere is worshiping Odin again!

Which is interesting, because Shiva already kind of did that (challenging what we know on how Primals are summoned/sustained).

Shiva has me in full darksteelfoil hat mode. I've been building this huge theory about how the six elements themselves are the true primal forces (the "rainbow" of aspects from the "white light" of the Crystal) and that they've manifested differently with different names over the ages. They can be summoned into hosts like Iceheart, but this is corrupted by the Ascians, who instead twist the rituals to summon them with no anchor, resulting in a power-mad Elemental that seeks only to devour more aether to sustain its presence and power. It explains both kinds of summoning, why Belias looks like Ifrit, and even extends to the origins of the Twelve. I've just avoided talking too much about this crazy fringe theory until after 2.5 because it's a house of cards that could easily be toppled by a single piece of new information. I have a tendency to take my speculations too far as I circle the truth drain, lol.

Or is he similar to Shiva in that he used host in order to manifest himself?

Well there's an interesting thought... We know so little about Odin that it's easy to make any theory work, though, so it's difficult to say. If he is indeed a "host" primal, perhaps that's why they've held back his lore for this long.

2.5 will tell us more

Pretty stoked for that.

[DoctaruRavenbe]

I think that with Odin there is a concept: The strongest warrior to walk the Shroud. It may be why when someone beats Odin, he takes their form. It's one of those technicality things that some gods/trickster spirits use to cheat a win.

[Alberel]

I think the hint was more along the lines of, but that must mean something somewhere is worshiping Odin again!

Shiva has me in full darksteelfoil hat mode. I've been building this huge theory about how the six elements themselves are the true primal forces (the "rainbow" of aspects from the "white light" of the Crystal) and that they've manifested differently with different names over the ages. They can be summoned into hosts like Iceheart, but this is corrupted by the Ascians, who instead twist the rituals to summon them with no anchor, resulting in a power-mad Elemental that seeks only to devour more aether to sustain its presence and power. It explains both kinds of summoning, why Belias looks like Ifrit, and even extends to the origins of the Twelve. I've just avoided talking too much about this crazy fringe theory until after 2.5 because it's a house of cards that could easily be toppled by a single piece of new information. I have a tendency to take my speculations too far as I circle the truth drain, lol.


Well there's an interesting thought... We know so little about Odin that it's easy to make any theory work, though, so it's difficult to say. If he is indeed a "host" primal, perhaps that's why they've held back his lore for this long.


Pretty stoked for that.

I'm of the opinion that Odin is going to be something unique that throws another spanner in the works. Based on the trial itself at fan fest and where the story was heading in 2.4 I actually think Odin will provide the means necessary to destroy an Ascian once they're trapped in the auracite. If he is truly a primal that is able to manifest itself in a way outside the normal rules then he'd also potentially provide a huge source of aether to call on at will to destroy the trapped Ascian.

I believe his sword is the key. When he is defeated in the trial Odin vanishes but his sword persists. That should not be possible unless the sword is something else entirely... say perhaps a primal using an object as a host? Given that the one to defeat him (the player that dealt the final blow) would likely then take his discarded sword it would explain why he always takes the form of that player: he is essentially tempering them and using them to sustain himself AND wield him. It would all still fit within the wider rules of how primals work but would be an interesting new twist on it whilst providing the plot device to kill Lahabrea (since we have the echo we would wield him without consequence).