How is SMN overall dps?

[Sunako]

Do you use that ifrits radiant shield in any case? I see it kinda useless special skill. Should i use it during earth shakers or something?

Would be nice 2 see numbers how much difference it is between garuda and ifrit in t13 with same gear.

[Sanguisio]

Yes garuda trumps ifrit after 5 mins, and then again every 5 mins she does better.

Raw damage wise ifrit should deliver 12000 potency in a 5 min period while garuda is only 10000 assuming they both have a 100% uprate on target (which for ifrit if the target moves is unlikely, the reason she is more favorable because contagion and that is it and this only makes a noticeable difference if you are buffing your DOTs and not messing up your rotation.

This highlights an issue with SMN, even when playing perfectly and clipping in the right times and lining up buffs, the dps increase isnt that great.

[Sanguisio]

Yes garuda trumps ifrit after 5 mins, and then again every 5 mins she does better.

Raw damage wise ifrit should deliver 12000 potency in a 5 min period while garuda is only 10000 assuming they both have a 100% uprate on target (which for ifrit if the target moves is unlikely, the reason she is more favorable because contagion and that is it and this only makes a noticeable difference if you are buffing your DOTs and not messing up your rotation.

This highlights an issue with SMN, even when playing perfectly and clipping in the right times and lining up buffs, the dps increase isnt that great.

I am interested to see your numbers. In every 4+ minute parse I have done against target dummies, Garuda never beats out Ifrit, regardless of contagion buff synergy. Ifrit's constant 20-30 dps increase over Garuda's autoattack wins out as long as the fights go longer than 2 minutes. Also remember that Spur and Rouse buff Ifrit by about 20% more than they buff Garuda due to ifrit's naturally higher dps output, as well as the fact that garuda has to stop attacking to use Contagion, so she loses one ranged attack from that

Absolutely, when I get a chance I will post some numbers, and working out behind it, and we can discuss. Would be great to settle this once and for all for everyone on here. Either way the dps increase either way is slight

Do you use that ifrits radiant shield in any case? I see it kinda useless special skill. Should i use it during earth shakers or something?

Would be nice 2 see numbers how much difference it is between garuda and ifrit in t13 with same gear.

Sure, in fights like titan when he is being pushed through phases its up to you.
-Landslide is physical
-Levi tailwhips physical
-Wicked wheels
The issue where things hit physical they are usually so strong pets get hit hard and could end up killing the pet and wasting mana.

[Autobalance]

Do you use that ifrits radiant shield in any case? I see it kinda useless special skill. Should i use it during earth shakers or something?

Normally yes, if you're using Ifrit, any physical attacks done to ifrit would cause ifrit to attack back. However, most of the attacks, specificially AOE attacks, in FCOB don't actually damage the pet. In the case of Earthshakers, the AOE will not damage the pet at all. You can easily test this out by putting Garuda, Ifrit, Eos, or Selene in the Line of Sight of Earthshakers.

[Sunako]

Normally yes, if you're using Ifrit, any physical attacks done to ifrit would cause ifrit to attack back. However, most of the attacks, specificially AOE attacks, in FCOB don't actually damage the pet. In the case of Earthshakers, the AOE will not damage the pet at all. You can easily test this out by putting Garuda, Ifrit, Eos, or Selene in the Line of Sight of Earthshakers.

Are you sure? I thought if it is similiar as lunar dynamo in t9 but have not test it. That radiant shield would have lot more utility if it would be magical damage rather than physical. Even tail swipe is not doing any damage against pet t10.

[Judge_Xero]

One thing I'm curious about Ifrit as well is what his AA damage is based off. I suspect it's X potency every 2.5s and doesn't change due to SMN weapon delay and AA value.

Then you can get Ifrit's full potency/time for AA Damage

I don't thing comparing Garuda's and Ifrit's potencies directly is a good idea since Ifrit AA + BS is a higher potency, but due to enemies having lower MDEF Garuda's single Wind Blade does higher damage/potency.

Example
Ifrit - 100 Potency @ 2.5s + 120 Potency @ 3s
Garuda - 100 Potency @ 3s

[ShinryuReishiki]

Do you use that ifrits radiant shield in any case? I see it kinda useless special skill. Should i use it during earth shakers or something?

Only time I use it in Final Coil is for the Pain's tail swipes.

Would be nice 2 see numbers how much difference it is between garuda and ifrit in t13 with same gear.

It's going to be difficult without forcing the entire raid to use the same gear, as the faster the adds die the worse your DPS will be. The only comparison I have is that during progression, we would always fall just short of skipping the third Flatten in the first phase. Once I switched to Ifrit, we never saw that third Flatten.

Yes garuda trumps ifrit after 5 mins, and then again every 5 mins she does better.

I think it's actually the short encounter that favors Garuda (Rather, Contagion). With Garuda, I'll hit higher numbers in that first minute because of Contagion, but as more time is spent without buffed DoTs, it falls short of Ifrit. We don't get to Contagion buffed DoTs often enough for Garuda to exceed Ifrit's higher natural damage.

I need to re-test in more current gear (Finally got my Dreadwyrm book this past Tuesday), but while my personal DPS was a little higher with Garuda, Ifrit's numbers were far better than Garuda's. These aren't the actual numbers; just trying to illustrate the point.

SMN: 310
Garuda: 120
Total: 430

SMN: 300
Ifrit: 150
Total: 450

Raw damage wise ifrit should deliver 12000 potency in a 5 min period while garuda is only 10000 assuming

Garuda can't Wind Blade and Contagion at the same time, so it would be more like 9500. That said, you can't just compare them by potency; physical attacks and magical attacks are handled differently in some way, and Ifrit has an auto attack in addition to Burning Strike. The only skill between the two you can easily compare is Enkindle because they're both magic attacks.

[Judge_Xero]

Comparing Garuda and Ifrit Damage

Garuda's Wind Blade does about 1/3 more damage than Ifrit's Burning Strike and Ifrit's AA does about half of his Burning Strike

Garuda's Potency is comparable to 160 Potency VS Ifrit 120 Potency for Burning Strike and 60 Potency for his AA

160 VS 180 (13%) - 164 VS 197 (25% Foes VS 80% Blunt/Slash - 10% Resistance is ~ 12% Damage increase)

So on average you should see Ifrit do 20% more Damage than Garuda or 13% more if you're not using a Monk/WarNIN

Pet DPS 100
Garuda 100
Ifrit 120

Pet DPS 200
Garuda 200
Ifrit 240


Edit:
I didn't factor in using Ifrit's other CD skills - which is greater DPS.
I didn't factor in Garuda's Contagion which is a DPS loss

[Autobalance]

snip.

Yeah, I believe pets are immune to most fcob attacks because of how aoe heavy fcob is. The Electric Field outside of the arena in t10, Tail Swipe, Nerve Cloud, Barofield, Earthshakers, all these aoe attacks don't damage the pets at all, which in turn means that none of these attacks will cause ifrit to attack back with radiant shield. I imagine if any of these aoe attacks did damage the pet, Summoners and Scholars would have a rough time keeping their pet alive (which would make the Summoner situation in fcob even worse).

Don't get me wrong though, there are aoe attacks like Crackle Hiss, Resonance, Revelation, Fire Breaths in t13, and Akh Morn that will damage and kill the pet but those types of aoe are meant for a tank to soak.

In the case of scob and t9, there are attacks like Lunar Dynamo that will damage the pet but just like in fcob, there are attacks that simply won't harm the pet as well such as Briars, Being in a tower in t8, etc.

[ShinryuReishiki]

So on average you should see Ifrit do 20% more Damage than Garuda or 13% more if you're not using a Monk/WarNIN

Should be around 20% even without the debuffs, though it's completely possible that my numbers have been skewed in some way. I just did some 10 minute tests with both pets, with different levels of micro on pet skills. That's not nearly enough data to give a concrete relationship, but it at least illustrates the general differences.

I'm 11 Int short of what I would have at full i130, so the numbers can still go up a little bit; debuffs also need to be considered, but it would be widening the gap rather than closing it. Wind Blade's 1s cast time seems to reduce the effectiveness of using Garuda-egi's other attacks on cooldown compared to doing the same with Ifrit-egi, though it still remains a DPS increase.