How is SMN overall dps?

[Tex_Mex]

snip]

Thank you so much for the detailed information you posted. The one thing that this chart does not cover is the extra dps gained from buffed DoT's and the couple of extra ruins while Contagion is active (since you do not have to recast your DoT's as often. That dps is not an easy thing to measure, because there is no direct way to do it.

That DPS is also the reason that most people believe that Garuda Egi is better or equal to Ifrit Egi. In my research, I have found that the added dps from Contagion DoT and extra ruins adds about 8 -12 DPS to the overall total while Garuda is on the field.
Using your numbers:

Ifrit Egi 174.5 DPS
Garuda Egi 148.0 DPS

This correlates with my own findings that SMN does more dps (overall) with Ifrit Egi on the field. It is not a huge amount, but it is noticeable. Also note that the gap between Ifrit and Garuda shrinks when gear is less than i130, but it still maintains the 15-20% rule

[Judge_Xero]

Should be around 20% even without the debuffs, though it's completely possible that my numbers have been skewed in some way. I just did some 10 minute tests with both pets, with different levels of micro on pet skills. That's not nearly enough data to give a concrete relationship, but it at least illustrates the general differences.

No that's looks awesome. I didn't include using Contagion which looks like a significant DPS loss for Garuda and it looks like I didn't give enough weight to the potency of Ifrit's AA compared to Burning Strike. It looks more like a potency of 65, than the 60 I used.

Also, I didn't consider that using Ifrit's other CD skills would be a DPS gain as I thought they would delay the use of Burning Stikes too much.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So using Ifrit with your gear level, what is your Total DPS on a Dummy Test?

I'm interested to see what % is pet damage in a practical test. So far, just doing quick comparisons for different iLvl gear sets, pet damage is increasing faster than SMN damage.

I think if SE kept the same ratio of SMN:Pet damage then SMN would be in a better position.

The ratio I'm looking at is 65:35 with Ifrit @ i70 and I believe we are creeping closer to a 60:45 ratio @ i130

So it looks like 367 SMN + Ifrit 165 = 532, instead of,
SMN 471 SMN + Ifrit 160 = 636

--------------------------------------------------

If that's the case then Pet gear scaling is too high and SMN gear scaling is too low.

Was this due to QQing about Contagion being too powerful on Garuda, or to just bring more emphasis to Ifrit?

[mvenom]

Should be around 20% even without the debuffs, though it's completely possible that my numbers have been skewed in some way. I just did some 10 minute tests with both pets, with different levels of micro on pet skills. That's not nearly enough data to give a concrete relationship, but it at least illustrates the general differences.

I'm 11 Int short of what I would have at full i130, so the numbers can still go up a little bit; debuffs also need to be considered, but it would be widening the gap rather than closing it. Wind Blade's 1s cast time seems to reduce the effectiveness of using Garuda-egi's other attacks on cooldown compared to doing the same with Ifrit-egi, though it still remains a DPS increase.

I assume this test was vs multiple dummies?
Doing more dps with Aoe skills + No dmg skills (Contagion/Radiant Shield) and Knockback/Stun seems not correct if not 2+ dummies.

[Sunako]

I assume this test was vs multiple dummies?
Doing more dps with Aoe skills + No dmg skills (Contagion/Radiant Shield) and Knockback/Stun seems not correct if not 2+ dummies.

The reason why those skills are doing more damage because they are off globals(or smaller delay compared normal). For garuda it will burn little from the global but still not have that much delay as wind blade so those abilities are dps increase.

if you compare how many burning strikes there is with only one ability 197 uses and how many uses there is with with aoe + stun ability 185 + 19 + 15 = 219 ability uses total

[mvenom]

The reason why those skills are doing more damage because they are off globals(or smaller delay compared normal). For garuda it will burn little from the global but still not have that much delay as wind blade so those abilities are dps increase.

if you compare how many burning strikes there is with only one ability 197 uses and how many uses there is with with aoe + stun ability 185 + 19 + 15 = 219 ability uses total

Hm alright, havent noticed that before, heh. Mostly used garuda on Obey because lolcontagion on 0 dot target on sic, but it seems like ifrit is way better (even more so when Mnk+War in pt, buffs both autoattack+burning strike vs Foe not up 100%).

[ShinryuReishiki]

I assume this test was vs multiple dummies?
Doing more dps with Aoe skills + No dmg skills (Contagion/Radiant Shield) and Knockback/Stun seems not correct if not 2+ dummies.

Single target; AOE would likely favor Garuda's Aerial Slash.

The pets seem to have more of an animation lock than a regular GCD. Like Ifrit does Burning Strike every 3s, but if you did a Flaming Crush, the next Burning Strike would come after the animation finished rather than waiting another 3s. I think it's less effective on Garuda because Wind Blade has a cast time.

[mvenom]

Single target; AOE would likely favor Garuda's Aerial Slash.

The pets seem to have more of an animation lock than a regular GCD. Like Ifrit does Burning Strike every 3s, but if you did a Flaming Crush, the next Burning Strike would come after the animation finished rather than waiting another 3s. I think it's less effective on Garuda because Wind Blade has a cast time.

Suppose you learn new things every day, heh. I'm just worried of using ifrit on Sic because the aoe skill doesnt hit target unless placed on spot X (behind target) and even then, when the target moves you have be constantly moving it. Another option would be spamming the skills whenever not on CD which I guess is better option, at least its not using useless Radiant shield.

[Sunako]

Did you time Flaming Crush and Crimson Cyclone during rouse and spur or did you use those skill every time they went out from the cd?

[Akiza]

Pets scale off intelligence and weapon damage almost twice that of Summoner.

[Judge_Xero]

Pets scale off intelligence and weapon damage almost twice that of Summoner.

Yeah, I think it's a terrible design that way because here is the scenario that we have.

i90 SMN 340 DPS
102 Pet - +35% each 20 ilvls - i130 Pet 186 DPS
238 SMN +25% each 20 ilvls - i130 SMN 372

Combined 558 DPS

i90 Monk 340 DPS
340 DPS - +35% each 20 ilvls - i130 Monk 620 DPS

So they started out the same, and then 40 iLvls later - SMN is 62 DPS lower

Then ~ 10 Gear sets later and Summoner pet, is doing almost the same amount of damage as the Summoner and Summoner is 1000 DPS lower.