How is SMN overall dps?

[Maero]

Ahh gotcha thanks
Wondered why the odd few used Ifrit in say ST

[Tex_Mex]

I main SMN and I can tell you that Ifrit is hands down higher dps in most situations. When I am able to use Ifrit, I see 20+ DPS increase almost every time. The MP spent is slightly higher for ifrit, since you have to cast your DoT's more often, but it can be made up for by not using Ruin2 all the time, which is the most common mistake that SMN's make

Ifrit loses its usefulness when/if:
He will take significant amounts of aoe damage
His travel time will be high
more AoE damage is needed from the SMN

Fights that I love to use ifrit in are T10, Shiva Ex, Ramuh Ex, most of ST (except the knockback AoE guys), nearly all dungeons.
The only time I pull out Garuda is when I will need increased AoE damage (cause Contagion+Bane = love) or if I need to have my pet in a safer place.

It is worth noting that Ifrit does require more micro as far as positioning, but good SMN's can maneuver him without any DPS loss since you can use pet action commands while casting or waiting for the GCD

[Sanguisio]

SNIP

Ifrit is good at times, but if you are lining your skills up the benefit contagion brings outweighs him situations where extra DOT time is allowed.
-Considering the MP you save by using contagion there is no reason not to use her unless it is trash you are dealing with, then his slightly higher potencies help.

Are you fully taking advantage of contagion ?
-PPPs
-Xpot
-RS
-All target DOTs

[Tex_Mex]

snip

Yes, I started my SMN career by using Garuda all of the time. Like you, I once believed that Garuda was higher dps output because of those same factors. 15s longer for a raging strikes buffed set of DoT's! Sure!! But you have to remember that contagion is on a 1 minute CD, which means it can only ever apply to about 1/3 of the DoT attacks you use anyways. Throughout all the rest of that time, the 30+ dps that ifrit puts out in just his auto attacks outweighs the contagion benefits by quite a bit.

Try it one day. Sit down with your smn at a target dummy and try it out. If you find something different let me know. Because all of the testing I have done shows ifrit to be higher dps in fights where his safety is not as big of an issue.

Of course, if you have to heal him all the time........ then go with garuda

[ShinryuReishiki]

Ifrit is good at times, but if you are lining your skills up the benefit contagion brings outweighs him situations where extra DOT time is allowed.
-Considering the MP you save by using contagion there is no reason not to use her unless it is trash you are dealing with, then his slightly higher potencies help.

Are you fully taking advantage of contagion ?
-PPPs
-Xpot
-RS
-All target DOTs

Contagion by itself essentially just amounts to casting 3 more Ruins each minute, and if coupled with Miasma 2, actually does not save MP. You should be using less Ruin IIs with Ifrit, so consumption is more even than it seems.

Contagion + Buffs is a considerable damage increase without a doubt, but how often are you getting that boost? If a fight is 9 minutes long, that's twice you'll get to use Raging + X-Pot + PPP + Contagion and once without the X-Pot. That's 45s of extra damage in a 9 minute fight. Using Ifrit instead of Garuda is 9 minutes of extra damage in a 9 minute fight.

Unlike Garuda, however, Ifrit is not safe for every fight. Any encounter where the boss has a knockback or circle AOE that would lower its uptime or potentially kill it, it would be better to use Garuda. Also, fights where the pet needs to be at a specific location to help split damage. For example, I use Ifrit on T10-13 (Though I use Garuda on the physical resist trash in T11 >.>), but I wouldn't use it on T7 or T9.

[Tex_Mex]

snip

I am glad to hear that you are getting to play your SMN in final coil. So many SMN's are getting denied FCoB entry at the moment that it is tough to remember a few groups still try and play them. My SMN has barely seen any play time in the coils yet (just one day when our BLM was out sick) since I also have a 50 DRG and it is just better 99% of the time, even though its gear is not as good.

[Judge_Xero]

I use Ifrit in all of FCOB now. It even works out well on T11 since my group also runs a BLM. Ifrit helps soak Repelling Cannons (since there's a lot of AOE heals going out I just set him and forget him) and it helps out on melee damage for the Sphere.

*** Even with Melee X 2 Bard and SMN I'd be interested in trying Ifrit on Sphere, SMN on Cube and Lvl 2 Mage LB on both the Sphere and Cube, LB2 takes less time to cast than for the Modules to combine and with SMN away from the party there's no risk of clipping people with Thunder. That way you can finish them much earlier and blast away the Egg.

T10 - just does better damage and due to gear increases Contagion is much less effective. Can get dicey if he eats too much Crackle or Tail swipe, so watch sicking him on adds while they are getting into position. (plz SE increase the range of Flaming Crush wtf)

T12 - Just better with so much up time of attacking Phoenix. Bennu Phase sucks when Ifrit gets clipped by a Flames of Rebirth between Bennu kills because he'll run off and do 0 damage to a shielded Phoenix for however long it takes you to figure out where he is. So a bit of micro management here. (not using Contagion here gives you more control of your dots so that Bennu's don't die when they shouldn't)

T13 - pretty much for all the same reasons.

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I prefer to start with Garuda though for her amazing opener.

Start with Shadow Flare in place. RS, INT POT, B2+M+B, Fester, PPP, M2 + Contagion, SC Ifrit, Energy Drain, Fester, Aetherflow. (Ruin II's for weaving) Use Rouse + Spur + Enkindle with Ifrit.

- I use Energy Drain on the opener with all party buffs up (Trick attack, Foes, etc whatever your pt comp is) because it lets you get Aetherflow used up faster and in long fights you are going to be using at least 1 Energy Drain, so why not use it when it's going to be very strong at the start.

- When using Ifrit you don't have to worry about saving RS for when Contagion is up, but it is recommended to use it prior to applying Bio that way you can cast a second Bio while it is still active.

- I like that you have more freedom with Ifrit to not have to base your rotation around Contagion.

[Sequora]

I use Ifrit in all of FCOB now.

I'm actually interested in trying this. I agree it kind of sucks having manage using things like raging strikes, X-pots, and poison pots with contagion. I do have a couple concerns. I'm a very avid aerial slash user. In t10 I use it during the adds phase to get a little extra DPS. Flaming crush range is 3y which is absolutely tiny. I don't even know if it would hit both adds when they're together. For T11 I'm the only caster. We have our BRD DoT up my add, but with a very skilled MNK and NIN in my group I think I would struggle to get down my add in a timely manner as the cube would take reduced damage from ifrit. For T11 I use aerial slash on black fires, and I use it during the bennu phase. Flaming crush probably wouldn't hit all the bennus. Suggestions?

[Tex_Mex]

Flaming crush range is 3y which is absolutely tiny. I don't even know if it would hit both adds when they're together. For T11 I'm the only caster. We have our BRD DoT up my add, but with a very skilled MNK and NIN in my group I think I would struggle to get down my add in a timely manner as the cube would take reduced damage from ifrit. Suggestions?

For T11, if you are the only magic user, then you probably need to use Garuda so that you can get the cube down in a timely manner. As for AoE, Garuda is usually stronger in AoE situations because Contagion+Bane is an extremely effective AoE DPS tool. Ifrits AoE damage is ok, but the short range on flaming crush leaves some to be desired.

Ifrits Enkindle hits harder than Garudas, but only by a measly 50 potency, and that's only if the enemies are alive for 15 seconds after the attack. So ya, if you are needing to provide higher AoE DPS, go garuda, but ifrit is the king for ST dps

[Judge_Xero]

I'm actually interested in trying this. I agree it kind of sucks having manage using things like raging strikes, X-pots, and poison pots with contagion. I do have a couple concerns. I'm a very avid aerial slash user. In t10 I use it during the adds phase to get a little extra DPS. Flaming crush range is 3y which is absolutely tiny. I don't even know if it would hit both adds when they're together. For T11 I'm the only caster. We have our BRD DoT up my add, but with a very skilled MNK and NIN in my group I think I would struggle to get down my add in a timely manner as the cube would take reduced damage from ifrit. For T11 I use aerial slash on black fires, and I use it during the bennu phase. Flaming crush probably wouldn't hit all the bennus. Suggestions?

In T10 the Brother/Sister are usually on top of each other when tanked together, so Flaming Crush will hit both. (you have to wait till they are in pos though)

T11 as SMN and the only caster you would probably have to use Garuda (placed in the center attacking the Cube) or like you said you will have issues killing the Cube in time.
That's why I would highly recommend trying to LVL 2 Caster LB both the Cube and Sphere to finish them off. (if using Ifrit on the Sphere)
The other option is to try it without Garuda but to stock pile a full set of Aetherflow for the add phase. Using up the set of Aether prior to the phase change will only push the phase slightly faster, but having 6 Aether Stacks to use right at the start of the add phase (used with Quelling or your tank will hate you) will burn that add down pretty fast, especially since you will have Raging Strikes up by then.
Either way I would only recommend using Ifrit on the Sphere if you chose to use it for T11.

T12 - yeah I was using Aerial Slash on Black fires as well, but it wasn't needed. As the only caster in your Group, I'd recommend having the SCH just Bane to the black fires and that will kill them, and the Bard can finish off any stragglers. That way you can focus purely on having your Dots ready to bane onto the Bennu, and doing as much single target DPS as you can.

(The other thing I'm playing with is Bio + M2 on the Bennu, into Ruin spam) The reason for this is because you can't time you dots exactly when a Bennu comes out without clipping them too soon, thus wasted resources. So without a guarantee that your Bane will cause 300 Potency or greater to the Bennu, resource wise it may be best to Bio and Miasma II, which are both almost guaranteed to run their duration. This leaves an additional 300 potency to drop on Phoenix + the 70 Potency from M2 on Phoenix. So essentially if your Bane will not do 370 Potency to the Bennu before it dies (12<seconds on all dots prior to Baning) then you will want to do the above. )

Since you will probably be on Bennu duty with your Bard (2X Melee should stay on the boss) You can probably get away with your Bard just tossing both their Dots on the Bennu while you Ruin it once it's headed to it's die area. (otherwise you risk an interrupted cast) This gives both your dots and the bards dots time to take a chunk off the bennu and gives you time to reapply any dots on the boss that may be coming off and/or to continue casting Ruin on the Boss. (Virus the Bennu whenever possible)

(In most cases Flaming Crush will hit the Phase 1 and 2 Bennus if Phoenix is Tanked in the center, which it should be to accommodate a SMN)

For the Bennu Phase, Aerial Slash isn't a huge gain, and yeah, Flaming Crush probably wont hit all the Bennus. But your bread and butter on that is Bane anyways.
Dot # 1 Bennu - Bane to the rest - Kill # 1 -> Move - Dot the Big Bennu -> Bane to the rest (rinse and repeat till all dead) - my groups Bard usually uses Ballad for this part so that the WHM can main heal while the SCH DPS's.
I only use Fester on a Big Bennu as long as I'll have a AF stack to spare.