How is SMN overall dps?

[Sanguisio]

OK I will do this properly when I get home, but just some working out.

But Garuda should contribute 170 more potency than Ifrit.

There are little things which can make a difference:
-foe req buffs garuda and her contagion bonus
-Wars buff ifrit very slightly along with DRGs I think.

But like I said before, if the fight is short or your buffed DOTs wont tick fully. Use ifrit as he does do more auto attack damage then garuda without a doubt, but when DOTs will tick fully Garuda is better.

[Tex_Mex]

OK I will do this properly when I get home, but just some working out.

But Garuda should contribute 170 more potency than Ifrit.

There are little things which can make a difference:
-foe req buffs garuda and her contagion bonus
-Wars buff ifrit very slightly along with DRGs I think.

But like I said before, if the fight is short or your buffed DOTs wont tick fully. Use ifrit as he does do more auto attack damage then garuda without a doubt, but when DOTs will tick fully Garuda is better.

I am interested to see your numbers. In every 4+ minute parse I have done against target dummies, Garuda never beats out Ifrit, regardless of contagion buff synergy. Ifrit's constant 20-30 dps increase over Garuda's autoattack wins out as long as the fights go longer than 2 minutes. Also remember that Spur and Rouse buff Ifrit by about 20% more than they buff Garuda due to ifrit's naturally higher dps output, as well as the fact that garuda has to stop attacking to use Contagion, so she loses one ranged attack from that

[Sanguisio]

Yes garuda trumps ifrit after 5 mins, and then again every 5 mins she does better.

Raw damage wise ifrit should deliver 12000 potency in a 5 min period while garuda is only 10000 assuming they both have a 100% uprate on target (which for ifrit if the target moves is unlikely, the reason she is more favorable because contagion and that is it and this only makes a noticeable difference if you are buffing your DOTs and not messing up your rotation.

This highlights an issue with SMN, even when playing perfectly and clipping in the right times and lining up buffs, the dps increase isnt that great.

I am interested to see your numbers. In every 4+ minute parse I have done against target dummies, Garuda never beats out Ifrit, regardless of contagion buff synergy. Ifrit's constant 20-30 dps increase over Garuda's autoattack wins out as long as the fights go longer than 2 minutes. Also remember that Spur and Rouse buff Ifrit by about 20% more than they buff Garuda due to ifrit's naturally higher dps output, as well as the fact that garuda has to stop attacking to use Contagion, so she loses one ranged attack from that

Absolutely, when I get a chance I will post some numbers, and working out behind it, and we can discuss. Would be great to settle this once and for all for everyone on here. Either way the dps increase either way is slight

Do you use that ifrits radiant shield in any case? I see it kinda useless special skill. Should i use it during earth shakers or something?

Would be nice 2 see numbers how much difference it is between garuda and ifrit in t13 with same gear.

Sure, in fights like titan when he is being pushed through phases its up to you.
-Landslide is physical
-Levi tailwhips physical
-Wicked wheels
The issue where things hit physical they are usually so strong pets get hit hard and could end up killing the pet and wasting mana.

[ShinryuReishiki]

Do you use that ifrits radiant shield in any case? I see it kinda useless special skill. Should i use it during earth shakers or something?

Only time I use it in Final Coil is for the Pain's tail swipes.

Would be nice 2 see numbers how much difference it is between garuda and ifrit in t13 with same gear.

It's going to be difficult without forcing the entire raid to use the same gear, as the faster the adds die the worse your DPS will be. The only comparison I have is that during progression, we would always fall just short of skipping the third Flatten in the first phase. Once I switched to Ifrit, we never saw that third Flatten.

Yes garuda trumps ifrit after 5 mins, and then again every 5 mins she does better.

I think it's actually the short encounter that favors Garuda (Rather, Contagion). With Garuda, I'll hit higher numbers in that first minute because of Contagion, but as more time is spent without buffed DoTs, it falls short of Ifrit. We don't get to Contagion buffed DoTs often enough for Garuda to exceed Ifrit's higher natural damage.

I need to re-test in more current gear (Finally got my Dreadwyrm book this past Tuesday), but while my personal DPS was a little higher with Garuda, Ifrit's numbers were far better than Garuda's. These aren't the actual numbers; just trying to illustrate the point.

SMN: 310
Garuda: 120
Total: 430

SMN: 300
Ifrit: 150
Total: 450

Raw damage wise ifrit should deliver 12000 potency in a 5 min period while garuda is only 10000 assuming

Garuda can't Wind Blade and Contagion at the same time, so it would be more like 9500. That said, you can't just compare them by potency; physical attacks and magical attacks are handled differently in some way, and Ifrit has an auto attack in addition to Burning Strike. The only skill between the two you can easily compare is Enkindle because they're both magic attacks.

[ShinryuReishiki]

Storm's Eye + Dragon Kick increase Ifrit's damage by the same amount as Foe Requiem would increase Garuda's, but Foe Requiem will have less uptime than the other debuffs due to MP dependency versus being part of a rotation. Even without the blunt debuff, which is the more significant of the two, I get more out of Ifrit.

[Tex_Mex]

So this is just me running some quick and dirty numbers. Using a 3 minute total time (since this is the CD of Raging Strikes) I was able to estimate the additional potency gained by Each pet.

For Ifrit:
in 3 minutes, Ifrit attacks 60 times for 120 potency each
Ifrit = 120*60 = 7200 potency

Garuda:
Garuda hits 19 times/min for 100 pot each (1 att/min is lost to contagion)
Garuda = 100*19*3 = 5700
Garuda also gets additional DPS for Contagion. 15 seconds of 20% increased DPS for DoT's = 112.5 potency per 3 minutes (350*(15/30)*.2)+(300*(15/24)*.2)+(240*(15/18)*.2) = 112.5. This number would be higher factoring in PPP and int pots, but only marginally. We will round up to 150 for estimation purposes.

Lastly, caster gets 3 extra ruins/min from Contagion, so 80*3*3 = 720 potency
All together Garuda = 5700+150+720 = 6570 potency

This is roughly 600 potency less than ifrit in 3 minutes. And that is without factoring enkindle, spur, and rouse which all help ifrit more than garuda.

[Sanguisio]

Yes garuda trumps ifrit after 5 mins, and then again every 5 mins she does better.

Raw damage wise ifrit should deliver 12000 potency in a 5 min period while garuda is only 10000 assuming they both have a 100% uprate on target (which for ifrit if the target moves is unlikely, the reason she is more favorable because contagion and that is it and this only makes a noticeable difference if you are buffing your DOTs and not messing up your rotation.

This highlights an issue with SMN, even when playing perfectly and clipping in the right times and lining up buffs, the dps increase isnt that great.

[Riyos]

So, i played this game since D1, so that would be 1 year + few months, and i played summoner for almost 1 year. Everyone, and i repeat EVERYONE said that Garuda was better, and so i always used Garuda. And now, today, i read that ifrit is "much better", like...what the fuck?

[Tex_Mex]

So, i played this game since D1, so that would be 1 year + few months, and i played summoner for almost 1 year. Everyone, and i repeat EVERYONE said that Garuda was better, and so i always used Garuda. And now, today, i read that ifrit is "much better", like...what the fuck?

It is not so much that Ifrit is much better. Ifrit is better in some situations and Garuda is better in others. Ifrit is stronger in single target situations, and Garuda is better when you need magical damage from your pet or there is a lot of AoE.

Also, Ifrit was buffed at some point in the last 6 months. I can't remember the exact patch, but prior to that, Garuda was better almost all of the time I believe.

[Delta041]

All this Ifrit talk as got me wondering about using the thing. I'm still not sold on it for final coil though.

I've cleared 10 11 and done 12 up to last phase as Summoner
t10 is a nightmare for summoner. Constant DPS against multiple targets that can't be stacked and a lot of AoE that doesn't ignore the pet. I do this fight as a black mage now, too much of a headache.
t11 is actually pretty nice for Summoner. A movement heavy fight and mechanics that more or less don't hit the pet. I used to do add phase by switching to Ifrit but I find keeping Garuda out is easy enough (even on the egg node) and saves me MP and a swiftcast down the line.
t12 isn't too bad as a Summoner either, but I can't see Ifrit being too good here since it would have to chase down bennus during phase 1 and 2 where Garuda can simply be set in the middle of the room and hit everything with impunity.