Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Skeith-Adeline]

Snip

Woah there guy - calm your ass. Your comment is so full of bullshit that I am literally blinded by your ignorance. There is nothing, nothing at all, stopping SMNs from doing great in final coil. I don't care about your largely made up bullshit numbers, kid. SMNs are fine. Can they use some tweaks? Yes - I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying most SMNs feel like they are in DRGs position.

Don't come spouting disrespectful retorts, kid.

[ChazNatlo]

I gotta confess, I had that same feeling at one point. Especially since at early 2.4, my mains were Summoner and Dragoon.

I am curious. The OP has stated a dislike for Summoner, But do you dislike it because of that fear of being left behind, or do you dislike the way it plays as well. If it is the later, then yeah, change classes, without consideration for your book. It's a game, you shouldn't be playing something you don't enjoy.

If you like the class, but dislike it's perceived weakness, then I'm not sure, maybe try to ignore the future. Currently, the issues with summoner are a result of the Current endgame exposing it's weakness, it will not always be as such. If people are currently telling you to switch, then pose the arguments stated in this thread and ask your questions of the people telling you to quit being a summoner. If you can't, or they manage to sway you, then find another class you enjoy to play.

In short, just do what you think is best to have the most fun.

[ViviAnimus]

Says not to come spouting disrespectful retorts
- Replies in a demeaning unrespecful way.

Seriously, you are just that kind of dude, aren't you. Instead of refuting what people say, you resort to being a hypocrite (by doing the same thing you excuse others off and just calling the arguments or remarks bullshit). No one ever got any better from that kind of dribble. Because obviously you don't get the point, at all. It is true that Summoner can do quite well in Final Coil. It is however also true that it is outclassed by every job in the DPS department but Bard.
And in all fairness, Summoners are a bit in a DRG position because Dragoon could also do alright in Final Coil. It just wasn't viable in comparison to Ninja or Monk. The same goes for Summoner to Black Mage. Is that so hard to understand?

[OneWingedSora]

Woah there guy - calm your ass. Your comment is so full of bullshit that I am literally blinded by your ignorance. There is nothing, nothing at all, stopping SMNs from doing great in final coil. I don't care about your largely made up bullshit numbers, kid. SMNs are fine. Can they use some tweaks? Yes - I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying most SMNs feel like they are in DRGs position.

Don't come spouting disrespectful retorts, kid.

[Alberel]

This ^

A lot of the posts on this thread were made by people who don't even really play SMN as main class and think they know it all and sometimes described the class incorrectly/not being played at its best.

Good smn will do just as good dps as good blm, but it's just rare to find one, especially with so many changed to play other classes.

Sorry but this is just flat out untrue. There are enough parses in comparable gear now that prove BLM has higher ST damage than a SMN over a long period of time; significantly higher at that.

The problem as I see it is that BLMs were balanced around their AOE DPS originally and SMNs were supposed to be the single target kings. Eventually SE buffed the single target damage of BLMs though and did nothing to compensate SMNs. Unfortunately the fallout of this change is only just coming to light now due to stat scaling reaching ever high numbers that make the differences ever more obvious.

A 'good SMN' won't do fine because a good SMN is left to make an impossible choice between running out of MP or doing less damage to restore a miniscule amount of MP. Compare that to a BLM who has that built into their astral/umbral mechanic for MP management. Yes SMN has utility but none of it has any use in Final Coil. If anyone dies in Final Coil it will 90% of the time result in a chain reaction of unrecoverable deaths. Having an extra raise serves no purpose there.

In my opinion SMN should be balanced around having to use energy drain every so often, but our overall potency should be increased so that we can afford to take that regular hit to DPS. Making that choice should be part of the way the job works but it shouldn't punish us. The real problem is that there are few ways to buff SMN that won't break SCH. Increasing pet DPS as many suggest is a band-aid fix that would ultimately solve nothing as the problem would just resurface later down the line.

It is, I believe, too late now though. If there are any major changes coming to SMN they will be coming with the expansion now, hopefully with a class-system overhaul that can split SMN and SCH entirely.

[Skeith-Adeline]

You expected me to be calm after saying that I'm full of shit out of nowhere?
I said I "feel", openly showing that I'm speaking from what I've seen. It isn't my fault you skimmed over and found offense in my comment. Your anecdotal claims – your "I know" comments – aren't viable in arguments. Also, you aren't the word on what a great BLM is either, as numbers could largely depend on the strategy used and RNG.

DRGs were being denied in the FCoB because they weren't able to survive unavoidable damage. Even Yoshi-P said that himself during the London Fan Fest. SMNs are NOT in that position. I already said they should get some tweaks. DPS buff and some sort of Mana tweak. I don't believe it should be nearly as grandiose as I've read from posts here, FC pages and Reddit. SMNs need tweaks that would fit their class. Remove Contagion off of Garuda, and let it affect all DoTs; 2.5x pet DPS and slightly reduce DoT damage; pet combos. Something other than forever sustain+huge damage.

[Lamia-Blackheart]

summoners are fine. could they be better? absolutely.

ive cleared final coil and can do each turn hitting 410-430 easily (merged) with dps spikes close to 650 (pots, raging, enkindle). im never pulling the groups lowest dps number either. i rarely dip below 900 mana. i know i could increase my dps by 10-30 if i was spazzing out and using ruin 2 every chance i could as well as going in for auto-attacks, but then i would require mana song (lowers group dps) and crowd the melee dps and offtank.

410-430 average from all dps jobs at the end of an encounter is enough to kill all bosses in the game with a smart warrior and scholar pitching in (which is to be expected in decent raiding groups)

dps would be higher without all the spell speed. otherwise, playing a tight game will allow you to pull in good numbers. in the end, smn is fine. the current fcob fights arent particularly summoner-friendly but who knows what the alexander raids will bring.

[ViviAnimus]

I would never make the claim to be a top tier Black Mage anyway. Summoners are right now being denied in FCoB because their damage output is the lower of the magical DPS and it brings nothing too important. So in that sense it is in the same boat as DRG. Namely that there is a serious decline in Summoners. Also, Black Mages are always capable of producting good numbers, regardless of strategy. It's a stupid argument because Summoners too are affected by it.

Summoners have not as good ST damage nor do they have the same amount of Sustain as BLM classes. Also, again there are some logical inconsistancies on your part (a trait of being stupid, might I add). Your first post here literally claims that Summoners are fine You do not understand the issues Summoners have. Yet now you apparently think Summoners should receive a DPS buff and a Mana tweak. So in other words, you don't understand, yet you agree with buffs. Great job!

[Sanguisio]

lol running out of mana in about 4 minutes the lols.
SMN here and you just need to plan you stuff a bit better.

There is definitely an issue with SMN atm:
-mana does become an issue
-DPS generally isnt fair considering the other dps classes, SMN isnt difficult but it is the more difficult of the casters this should be rewarded for it.

[Tex_Mex]

Regardless of everyone's opinions, the simple truth is that some SMN's are getting pulled from statics because the class is not performing well in final coil. Yes, it is possible to beat final coil with SMN's in the party, but it does make it more difficult due to their lack of utility and poor sustained dps, so groups that are doing content for the first time, like mine, are more inclined to leave them out. My i115 smn pretty much never gets used any more since my i110 DRG can pull better numbers and has more sustain (and even more utility with the bard buff... which is hard to believe). While this is ok for me, plenty of people only play one class, so it can cause problems.

I believe SQEnix could fix the issues currently in place by making 1 small adjustment.

1) Give fester a 50% chance to allow your next energy drain to cost no aetherflow stack. - This provides a very marginal dps increase and solves smn MP issues while also not buffing SCH. nuff said.