How is SMN overall dps?

[Havenchild]

I think it is not worth sacrifice 19 int because of some extra piety. Also that your build would be almost same if use lose 2 weapon damage and put full piety build your relic weapon.

It is definitely not worth sacrificing that much INT for pittance of Piety.

The only stat you should ever sacrifice INT for is DET and usually only when you can get a solid amount of it.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OX6S

Most maxed INT builds would give you about 304 DET (meeting 535 Accuracy at least). This above build would sacrifice 20 INT to gain 69 DET, which if my testing is showing in-game, DET seems far stronger post 2.4 then before. I've been doing testing with a very solid end-game SMN friend of mine, and my 20 INT vs his 34 DET and were both pulling very, very similar numbers (exact rotation), with me slightly ahead, (even with me critting more often; about 20 more times on average, mainly Festers)

From my testing Ifrit has been better since i90, but due to the style of fights, Garuda + Contagion worked good enough.

Now Ifrits damage is just too good on these longer fights with no down time to not gear for him.

I can agree that Ifrit does more damage in some places then Garuda. However, his survivalbility is lower on average as well as you spend more MP on recasting expensive DoTs /Sustain, which also increases the MP drain over a long fight. Fights where the SMN can get exclusive Ballads would probably come out more in favor of Ifrit.

[Judge_Xero]

I can agree that Ifrit does more damage in some places then Garuda. However, his survivalbility is lower on average as well as you spend more MP on recasting expensive DoTs /Sustain, which also increases the MP drain over a long fight. Fights where the SMN can get exclusive Ballads would probably come out more in favor of Ifrit.

I find that having to cast Bio more reduces the number of R2 I cast in order to weave CD's which tends to equal out to almost the same MP usage of recasting the dots.

The AI for Ifrit is pretty good in that it will stand at the flank of the mob it's attacking. But you're right that you may have to toss a Sustain on it.

I've been practicing getting comfortable with Ifrit and so far I can maintain 30 DPS higher than with Garuda over 10 minutes.
So I'm hoping in FCOB this week it will be an even greater increase since my group runs a Monk and War. (Hoping for a 45 dps increase)

[ShinryuReishiki]

Since pets only benefit from MD, INT and Crit the value of DET using Ifrit is the lowest.

You should do another test. Determination definitely affects pet damage. These ranges are from just letting Ifrit attack on Obey for 10 minutes.

80 MD, 597 Int, 295 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P331)
- Auto-Attack: 104-115 (156-173 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 199-220 (299-330 Crit)

80 MD, 597 Int, 424 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P32Z)
- Auto-Attack: 117-130 (176-195 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 211-234 (317-349 Crit)

I can agree that Ifrit does more damage in some places then Garuda. However, his survivalbility is lower on average as well as you spend more MP on recasting expensive DoTs /Sustain, which also increases the MP drain over a long fight. Fights where the SMN can get exclusive Ballads would probably come out more in favor of Ifrit.

It really depends on the fight. For example, Ifrit has no survivability issues in T10-13; I've never needed Sustain unless I've made some sort of positioning error, like letting it in front of an add instead of behind. In fights where the boss has a knockback or circle AOE, it can be an issue, so I'd much prefer Garuda in such encounters.

I get 0 Ballad in T10-12 and I have no MP troubles. I do get it in T13 still, but that's more on the healers' needs than mine. You have to play slightly differently when using Ifrit, but the lower reliance on Ruin II actually makes the MP consumption very close despite the loss of Contagion.

I've been practicing getting comfortable with Ifrit and so far I can maintain 30 DPS higher than with Garuda over 10 minutes.
So I'm hoping in FCOB this week it will be an even greater increase since my group runs a Monk and War. (Hoping for a 45 dps increase)

That might be possible on a dummy, but in an actual encounter, the blunt/slashing debuffs won't make that big of an improvement. Especially on adds, there's a high chance that at least some of the attacks will happen before either debuff is up.

[Sunako]

Yah and did you remember count that garuda damage is increase if bard sing foe but that does not affect ifrit.

[Judge_Xero]

You should do another test. Determination definitely affects pet damage. These ranges are from just letting Ifrit attack on Obey for 10 minutes.

80 MD, 597 Int, 295 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P331)
- Auto-Attack: 104-115 (156-173 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 199-220 (299-330 Crit)

80 MD, 597 Int, 424 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P32Z)
- Auto-Attack: 117-130 (176-195 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 211-234 (317-349 Crit)

Thank you. Yeah, I ended up doing more testing over the weekend because I wanted to see if DET effected Ifrit's AA damage at all. After seeing that it increased Burning Strike damage as well as AA damage I went back and tested Garuda as well.

Values I ended up with.

DET increases Garuda's Damage twice as much as Ifrit's. i.e. 22 DET gave my Ifrit a 2 DPS gain, where as it gave Garuda a 4 DPS gain. (i120 weapon)
I used Tanking accessories with only DET to test, then just removed them to decrease my DET value, so this value may vary depending on the rest of a players gear.

I wish SE would stop changing everything without giving notice. Next thing you know we'll have Spell Speed effecting pets again without any updates.

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Yah and did you remember count that garuda damage is increase if bard sing foe but that does not affect ifrit.

This is true of course. But, over a 10 minute fight you would probably end up with Ifrit whacking away on a mob that has the slash/blunt debuffs for a longer duration than Garuda benefits from Foes. Not to mention that Ifrit's damage is higher than Garuda's even with Foes (other than Battle Voiced Foes of course)

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Using a baseline DPS of 350 SMN DPS at i131 *** Big estimate here, since the way MD + INT scales between each other + secondary stats. I suspect that baseline to be low, because I just used 292 DPS + 20% from i111


In comparing this gear set http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2LE with the higher spell speed paired with Ifrit @ 22% Crit rate combined with the ability to proc the Enhanced Pet ability twice as much as Garuda for 20% increased spell speed (506->607) 2.34->2.24 GCD. Over 6 minutes it will average out to about 80 seconds at 2.24s or 22% of the time. Which translates to ~5 more attacks (not counting any benefit from Fey Glow) Since you can't cast dots faster than it takes for them to wear off, we can assume we only get 5 more ruins, or 400 more potency, so about 4.5 DPS @ i131
Combined with Fey Glow where you can also get an additional 5 Ruins, that's a total of 10 Ruins, or 800 Potency ~9 DPS

Using Garuda + Contagion with less spell speed and higher DET SMN DPS should be about 10 DPS higher than the baseline.

SMN Damage
(Using Ifrit)Estimated i131 SMN DPS @ i131 359 DPS (High Crit + Spell Speed)
(Using Ifrit) Estimated i131 SMN DPS @ i131 353 DPS (More DET + Less Spell Speed) Ifrit will do 4 DPS more though so it's around 357
(Using Garuda)Estimated i131 SMN DPS @ i131 360 DPS (More DET + Less Spell Speed)

Pet Damage
Estimated Ifrit damage @ i131 - 182 DPS Solo (197 DPS simulated with Slash/Blunt debuff @ 80%) - high crit/low det
Estimated Garuda damage @ i131 - 154 DPS Solo (159 DPS simulated with Foes Requiem (25% of the time) - high crit/det

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Ifrit Combined estimate - 541 DPS (556 Simulated with Slash/Blunt debuff)

Garuda Combined estimate - 514 DPS (+ Foes 519)

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This is half thrown together, just to get a look at a different approach to SMN + Ifrit and I will be using this data for further testing in FCOB to compare to other classes. (Bubble numbers are ok, but testing in action is better)

Feel free to critique, as that's how everyone learns more.

[ShinryuReishiki]

DET increases Garuda's Damage twice as much as Ifrit's. i.e. 22 DET gave my Ifrit a 2 DPS gain, where as it gave Garuda a 4 DPS gain. (i120 weapon)

I tried the same two gear sets with Garuda. Ifrit seems to benefit slightly more. Burning Strike and Wind Blade both did about 6-7% more damage with +129 Det, but Ifrit's auto attacks did about 12-13% more damage, which results in about 8% overall.

80 MD, 597 Int, 424 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P32Z)
- Auto-Attack: 117-130
- Burning Strike: 211-234
- Wind Blade: 302-333

80 MD, 597 Int, 295 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P331)
- Auto-Attack: 104-115
- Burning Strike: 199-220
- Wind Blade: 282-311

Not factoring in critical hits, Rouse, Spur, Enkindle, debuffs...

Ifrit (424): 115.33 DPS
Ifrit (295): 106.33 DPS
Difference: 9 (+8.46%)

Garuda (424): 105.83 DPS
Garuda (295): 98.83 DPS
Difference: 7 (+7.04%)

[Judge_Xero]

I tried the same two gear sets with Garuda. Ifrit seems to benefit slightly more. Burning Strike and Wind Blade both did about 6-7% more damage with +129 Det, but Ifrit's auto attacks did about 12-13% more damage, which results in about 8% overall.

Wow, no idea why I ended up with the results I did. I let each set run for 20 minutes and I ran them twice each just to make sure, since it was such a difference between pets.

I didn't remove any crit data, but I'd think that would even out over 20 minutes.

[Maero]

I always thought Garuda was higher dps?
I rarely play smn anymore so my data probably is not up to date, haha

[ShaolinMike]

I always thought Garuda was higher dps?
I rarely play smn anymore so my data probably is not up to date, haha

Garuda allows SMN to do more damage because of the extra Ruins you can cast instead of having to recast DoTs when you use Contagion, but it's raw DPS numbers are less than Ifrit.

[Sleigh]

Garuda allows SMN to do more damage because of the extra Ruins you can cast instead of having to recast DoTs when you use Contagion, but it's raw DPS numbers are less than Ifrit.

Ifrit allows significantly higher DPS than Garuda if you have a MNK and WAR in your party, regardless of Contagion. It is quite an MP sink, however, and Ifrit can have travel time unlike Garuda (normally, sometimes she has to travel).

Given enough MP, meaning you get enough Ballad (lol) or the fight is short enough, Ifrit does do considerably more DPS.