SMN mp needs sorting out

[Viridiana]

I am just trying to provide alternative solutions to the problem. Whether or not I have participated in Final Coil is irrelevant.

Except your alternate solution is to cut back on DPS. When groups are clearing as the boss enrages, that's simply not an option.

[Mholito]

Except your alternate solution is to cut back on DPS. When groups are clearing as the boss enrages, that's simply not an option.

Wouldn't a small cutback on dps for the sake of better sustainability result in better overall dps? Doing slightly less damage for the sake of never having any complete downtime.

[Viridiana]

Wouldn't a small cutback on dps for the sake of better sustainability result in better overall dps? Doing slightly less damage for the sake of never having any complete downtime.

If you absolutely must take a SMN? Maybe. Know what would be even better for DPS? Taking a BLM.

[Sleigh]

I am just trying to provide alternative solutions to the problem. Whether or not I have participated in Final Coil is irrelevant.

If the problem was purely just staying afloat on MP, that's no issue, there are ways to do that: MP pots, cutting back on R2 entirely after opener, selective stopping of Ruin, Energy Drain, etc.

The problem is maintaining competitive DPS compared to the other DPS roles while managing those things, and currently, that's just not happening; the TP users are all taken care of together, and BLM doesn't need help, so those guys can go full blast and do their already higher DPS. Whether or not SMN needs a damage buff or not (I think it does from my experience but that's not important), it simply can't transmit its damage in FCoB as much as everyone else can.

[Sunako]

This is also useless conversation because everybody see the things in the different way. If SE originally planned SMN should oom at some point, they need reduce potency of some skills, if they wanna keep the balance. Like reduce fester potency for the 230, reduce ruin2 potency for the 70 and increase ruin potency 85 or something like that but infinite mp and never need drain mana anymore. Purpose of our mana control allow us use the damage in the phases where we need it more and thats why it is not same sustained all of the time. Or that is my opinion. But Everybody have their own opinions and some ppl want damage 2 be same amount whole 10min+ fight.

[BlaiseArath]

Purpose of our mana control allow us use the damage in the phases where we need it more and thats why it is not same sustained all of the time.

I think the problem people are getting at is that other jobs don't have this kind of limitation in such severity. For instance, BLM can continue at its max DPS without concern for MP throughout any fight duration... and Melee/Ranged DPS/Tanks can all gain benefit from Paeon, making it far more useful for a BRD to sing that. The only ones who benefit from Ballad and need to concern themselves with MP are Healers, and SMN. Obviously one being way more important than the other.

So as a SMN, we understand that there are ways to manage our MP to improve our longevity in fights, but this restriction does a decent dent in our DPS which means in DPS check or long fights our DPS will tamper off and get further and further away from other jobs.

[Staris]

I think the problem people are getting at is that other jobs don't have this kind of limitation in such severity. For instance, BLM can continue at its max DPS without concern for MP throughout any fight duration... and Melee/Ranged DPS/Tanks can all gain benefit from Paeon, making it far more useful for a BRD to sing that. The only ones who benefit from Ballad and need to concern themselves with MP are Healers, and SMN. Obviously one being way more important than the other.

So as a SMN, we understand that there are ways to manage our MP to improve our longevity in fights, but this restriction does a decent dent in our DPS which means in DPS check or long fights our DPS will tamper off and get further and further away from other jobs.

by other jobs you mean only blackmage right?
because all the tp jobs can/should modify their rotation based on fight length to manage tp. (example not fracturing).

[Viridiana]

by other jobs you mean only blackmage right?
because all the tp jobs can/should modify their rotation based on fight length to manage tp. (example not fracturing).

They did say "in such severity." Even if we assume the melee classes would be using Fracture for the tiny DPS increase it is, dropping Fracture is nowhere near as severe as dropping Ruin and Ruin II entirely. That's more like a BRD not using Heavy Shot to manage TP.

[Ryans]

ya and let 3 mages share 1 magical DPS slot. Even if the new mage will have limited resources, you think a bard would play for that one new mage only? Yeah no...

Seriously, the problem isn't summoner. It is Blm. If it wasn't the only other caster to compare resource management to, this thread wouldn't exist. Melee have the EXACT same resource troubles but it is universal to all melee. That is why there is no complaining about it. The community has accepted it and found a way to deal with the issue. Paeon. If there were enough caster DD classes then party makeups would change to one melee, two casters, and a bard singing ballad when needed.

[Numenor1379]

Seriously, the problem isn't summoner. It is Blm. If it wasn't the only other caster to compare resource management to, this thread wouldn't exist. Melee have the EXACT same resource troubles but it is universal to all melee. That is why there is no complaining about it. The community has accepted it and found a way to deal with the issue. Paeon. If there were enough caster DD classes then party makeups would change to one melee, two casters, and a bard singing ballad when needed.

In reality there ARE other caster classes you can compare SMN to... WHM and SCH. The problem is that for optimal DPS output a SMN has the same MP costs as a SCH but without the ability to use Aetherflow for as much MP regen as a SCH does, while at the same time not having a passive such as Shroud that gives a huge boost to MP like the WHM.

BLMs aren't the problem as that class was designed for MP regen through self buffs. SMNs lack this.

So, from there we've got a couple of options. A potency increase in the MP regen ability of Aetherflow (we'll ignore ED as that really shouldn't be used by a SMN if at all possible). Perhaps a Shroud-like buff could be added when Aetherflow is at 3 stacks? OR the SMN MP costs need to be reduced.

The damage output of SMNs is fine so long as they don't run their MP dry as fast as they currently do. If their MP drain was scaled such that it'd hit bottom around the same rate as a WHM does then Ballad could be sync'd between those classes and we'd not have issues with "oh, we don't use Ballad for SMNs".