Let Players Speed Run Again

[Kaiser-Ace]

Actually, I misinterprated what dcgregorya was saying. I call it "The Azeroth Complex" when players only veiw dungeons only as a place to get gear. The Azeroth Complex is also usually the starting point of new elitists.

It goes back to the arguments of Gear =/= skill, to speed or not to speed, and the "Who's the noob" blame game. This isn't Cod, Halo, or Destiny. We all have the right and ability to almost as we damn well please in this game with only a few reasonable restrictions. Thus the same problems occure in game as IRL, the few ass hats in the bunch ruin it for every one. Did I like the nerf in AK? No, now you can almost solo it. Did I like the one for PS? Yes because more than a few of those mechanics were compleatly unfair to the average player.

The thing is, you speed because YOU want to. Trust me after they die a few times from pulling ahead of you they'll get the picture. On the other hand do I look at every flower and speck of dust in the dungeon on the way through? No because it's disrespectful.

All things in balence my friends. All things in balence.

[Kaiser-Ace]

I'm with you . I was more responding to the first people in the thread who were saying there's an ethical obligation to running it as fast as possible. I'm happy to run a dungeon however everyone else wants to do it...it's kinda nice to see the dungeons.

But yeah, I'm not an elitist I just mean in general if people get really upset about the duty finder then don't use it - especially DPS who have the easiest job.

And I do apologize, As I've said, I did misinterpret what you were saying and that was all my bad. So I do apologize for that. And you're right, you can't have it all cause you can't please every one.

If I see a farm party on PF for content I havn't done I will either pass over them or ask if they're ok with a rookie. If they arn't I move on. As for DF, 1st thing I do as tank is greet the party and make sure we're all on the same page. Even if it's all melees, if they think they can handle the swarm and the healer says they can keep up I'll give it a shot, but the majority vote always rules to me. 2-1 vote for or against. And if it's up to me..... well my pace is kinda half way anyway. Like when I run my alts in satasha NM. "We doing all rooms or going streight to the boss?" Vote goes up and we follow through.

[mdha02]

I'm sure somebody already said this but 20 pages is a lot to read. You said people who don't want to speed run should use PF. Why can't people who want to SR use the PF? That way you all know going into it you are capable of speed running.

[Zedd702]

I'm totally shocked that this thread is still breathing...

I'm sure somebody already said this but 20 pages is a lot to read. You said people who don't want to speed run should use PF. Why can't people who want to SR use the PF? That way you all know going into it you are capable of speed running.

This is a partial solution. But the BEST solution is for the tank/healer to communicate BEFORE he/she shoots off into the dungeon only to return to the start of the dungeon where the rest of the party is still being buffed...

But there are too many tanks that have grown accustomed to bad habits, so the common courtesy ship has already sailed. I still to this very day ask DF teams. I get more that want a SR than I do with a steady pace, but my rules are:

1. If healer rejects to big pulls and I am tanking. There will be no big pulls.
2. If majority wants a SR (1 of the votes being healer). I will SR, until I see the team can't handle it.

Yesterday's snowcloak was very entertaining, me as healer. While buffing the team the tank fled. I did not chase him as I was in mid cast of protect after I used swiftcast + SSII, before he went off like a dress on prom night. I told him to wait so I can cast buffs.

He died and came back to start. After we buffed up and started the dungeon like a real team. The tank just had to keep calling me names... It took a hell of alot of energy for me to keep quiet, but he said a little too much at Fenrir and guess what? I let him die and then said something equivalent to a comic I saw with "Yeh I guess I am a really bad healer," I let him lie dead on the floor while I kept the MNK alive and kiting Fenrir as best I could, he was only at like 10%. MNK LB'd the SMN kept DOT's goin and Fenrir died. Gave my comm to the MNK and immediately left the dungeon with the dead tank on the floor.

Funny part was the SMN left him dead too and both DD's lol'd at my comment. I got both comms...

[Sakasa]

I am not sure how you remember WP and AK but both were adjusted to slow players down as it was undermining the fact there are mobs in the way at all with the ilvl increase we undermine that fact any way and then they eased them in AK as it wasn't a concern for them to not punish incoming players.

To be perfectly honest to the term if it is not speed runnable via that certain strategy then others will have to be used in purpose to save time. The mechanics aren't in the way they are the game you play around them like the fact that the whole party can't be invisible. A speed runner runs as fast as they can including breaking exploiting and cheesing what ever they can with in the rules of the run with out modifying the outside system.

So if the system doesn't allow you to lock out 45 mobs at the boss room forcing you to deal with them you do as fast and effective as possible. Very few games have the same speed run tactics even across sequels some games are going to be more strict others less so. That is the issue of the runner not the developer. Just like it is on the developer to fix an issue players found in the system such as 6k dots for smners in coil if the developer decides that is not how they want it completed. Wish for an oversight on the next set of dungeons (I am still waiting for a missing invisible wall to jump pass a boss) but speedrunners aren't made because the system intentionally allows you to do so they do it because they can and they will do it till they can't.

Best wishes and gotta go fast...

[Jinrya-Geki]

I'm sure somebody already said this but 20 pages is a lot to read. You said people who don't want to speed run should use PF. Why can't people who want to SR use the PF? That way you all know going into it you are capable of speed running.

Because even using the PF to make a speed run party, the mechanic are what prevent speed runs. Instances like Snowcloak where you can't proceed until you kill a certain number of mobs, such as the area just before the cultists. You have to kill the Ogres and spriggans, before the crocodile will show up, and after killing the croc the Cyclops will show up. It's also the same with the room just before the first snowcloak boss. Yeah you can pull most f the mobs, but after you get the key to the gate you have to kill a bomb and two wolves. Really 3 additional mobs before the boss? the gate won't appear until those 3 are dead. It's a small thing, but the dungeons have a lot of those small things. Which adds up.

That's what I want removed is these small stopping spots.

[Zedd702]

That's what I want removed is these small stopping spots.

Bleh...

It does not matter one way or another to me at all. When healing, I'm actually happy for those spots as I can actually do something other than heal spam mindlessly curing the tank, myself occasionally, or dps when hate is pulled from the tank.

I take it as a breath of fresh air tbqf.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Perhaps I'm just cranky from being up early, but I think it's terrible that I'm dreading the thought of running roulettes today. Not because of the length or forced stops or whatever, but because of speed-whiners. (Please note: This is NOT a shot at any given person here, and should not be taken as such.) Sure, I want my tomes just like everyone else, but I'm at the point - especially at the height of all this relic jazz - that I'd rather run any and every other alternative.

It's terrible that purely to make a point, I overpulled and killed a party (including the friend I was there just to help), then basically threatened them to fall silent and simply take it at non-speed-running pace in Brayflox HM (High Roulette) just days ago. I'm very much not proud of that, and it's only further cemented my abject hatred of that dungeon.

[Ellatrix]

It isn't possible to overpull in brayflox though. Doing brayflox slow is basically torture, and I would try to vote kick you, or just log off and play on my alt.

Most groups are thrilled to get a tank who isn't slow.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Doing Brayflox Any Mode is slow torture, personal opinion. Didn't care for the original either. And by overpulled, I mean I pulled everything in the area between the first and second boss, including the enemies you're apparently not supposed to pull, according to the DPS/Healer there. Problem is, we were split right down the middle on how to do it - I as the tank and my friend as one of the BLMs didn't want to SR, the other BLM and healer did. What happened to "the tank sets the pace of the dungeon" there? Yes I'm geared for it, hell, we were all overgeared for it. Fact is, half the party didn't want to, half did. Who's right or wrong?

I'd have normally just ignored it all, stayed silent and pressed on to just be done with it, but I was admittedly in a bad mood that day. So yeah, I pulled it all, popped Hallowed, then put my weapon away and let the chaos ensue to make a point. I should've Mandervilled. No, not really.

My own personal remedy for this situation is, basically, eat the timer. I didn't enjoy doing what I did, nor am I proud of losing my cool like that. So go ahead and speed run. I'll either see myself out at the start (no matter what role) or just not queue for it in the first place. At least therein lies my actual choice.


EDIT: You have a point, Ellatrix, but the opposite is true as well. While I hesitantly went on to run Expert Roustasha this morning (always Sastasha. Always), the tank surprisingly did not attempt big pulls or try to speed run it, and the healer first spoke up in gratitude of it. Total luck of the draw that an entirely random DF party just so happened to feel the same about how to run that dungeon. It was a good time, and I really didn't care how long it took (Hint: Didn't take long at all with everyone on the same page.)