Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?

[Adormus]

Omg, what are you talking about???
I was talking about players using computer programs to read others players dps. Not intended to offend anyone.

Yeah, you called those people freaks indirectly. That's not important anyway

But your last reply is just plain ridiculous. You want _everyone_ to be ineffective, just because you want _yourself_ to be ineffective. Not gonna happen. If you don't want to improve yourself in an effective way, that's your thing. But don't impose those restrictions on others. No one will agree with you anyway.

[Hayward]

Yeah, you called those people freaks indirectly. That's not important anyway

But your last reply is just plain ridiculous. You want _everyone_ to be ineffective, just because you want _yourself_ to be ineffective. Not gonna happen. If you don't want to improve yourself in an effective way, that's your thing. But don't impose those restrictions on others. No one will agree with you anyway.

OBJECTION! Assuming facts not in evidence.

No one, so far as I've read, is wanting anyone to be ineffective (whatever that's supposed to mean) nor has implied any such thing. For the most part, our objections to these types of parsers lie in their potential for abuse, period.

[Ellatrix]

OBJECTION! Assuming facts not in evidence.

No one, so far as I've read, is wanting anyone to be ineffective (whatever that's supposed to mean) nor has implied any such thing. For the most part, our objections to these types of parsers lie in their potential for abuse, period.

Better take out chat while we're at it, since people can say mean things on the internet to other people.

[Adormus]

OBJECTION! Assuming facts not in evidence.

No one, so far as I've read, is wanting anyone to be ineffective (whatever that's supposed to mean) nor has implied any such thing. For the most part, our objections to these types of parsers lie in their potential for abuse, period.

Well, that post was a reply to DSaint. Read his last post. He clearly wants everyone to be ineffective. Also the "possible abuse" argument is overused as hell.

People will get abused whether there are official parsers or not. People will be jerks over the most nonsensical crap. Running a parser does not magically convert you into a douche. Either you are one or not. This has _nothing_ to do with DPS meters. They will simply find other stuff to harass people with.

[Yamimarik]

Also the "possible abuse" argument is overused as hell.

People will get abused whether there are official parsers or not. People will be jerks over the most nonsensical crap. Running a parser does not magically convert you into a douche. Either you are one or not. This has _nothing_ to do with DPS meters. They will simply find other stuff to harass people with.

This^ right here. You will never and can never stop people from being mean or horrible to other people if that's how they want to be. People are people, they will always find ways to make people miserable if they can get the chance because that's what they love doing. Like I said in my earlier post, you will never know anything good, if all you worry about is the bad that could possibly come from it, and never give it a chance.

[Krr]

Instead of using hard numbers to improve our play let's use suppositions based off our own biases and unconfirmed guesswork. This is a reasonable way to expect humans to analyze data accurately and not what led us to absurd suppositions like "let's kill 30 goats every few months so Hades doesn't get mad at us."

It doesn't matter as long as you win eventually even if you don't understand how or why you took the steps to get there right?

[Kazumac]

Stop there! Exactly! Thiiiis is my point, my dear friend.
They need to practice. They don't need to read numbers with that Sauron program.
They-just-need-practice.

Lets warp for a different universe...
In this universe, Sauron never did a program to read dps pr healing potency. So, what is going to happen into ffxiv? Bahamut will swallow us all, because no one will be good enough?

Of course not!! Players will just practice with ingame features to improve urself and beat that dread dragon!

Sure keep throwing darts in the dark and you might get better eventually but I'd prefer to practice with the lights on.

Had an FC member practice her heart out to get better and was stagnant and had no clue why she wasn't getting better and extremely frustrated. After getting someone to use thier auto abacus on her runs she was able to pin point areas for improvement that otherwise eluded her. Are you truly arguing for ignorance over being informed? I really don't get why. Just saying practice more isn't the answer. Practice with a purpose is and metrics give us that knowledge.

Some things are obvious like I need to improve my dodging of mechanics. Others aren't and require a more analytical view. How do you get better without identifying what is wrong? And don't say guides or videos as those are not in game features (and typically fueled by a parser backing up thier advice).

[Chooty]

OBJECTION! Assuming facts not in evidence.

No one, so far as I've read, is wanting anyone to be ineffective (whatever that's supposed to mean) nor has implied any such thing. For the most part, our objections to these types of parsers lie in their potential for abuse, period.

If you advocate that people do stuff that a computer is much quicker and better at doing, you're advocating for people to be ineffective.

[Gilraen]

I thought we were advocating "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in regards to parsers. Don't ask us to use them, don't tell us how bad we are for not using them. I.e. keep it to yourself. If we want to use a parser, we will. If not, we don't care about the numbers and don't want to be told what they are.

[DSaint]

Well, that post was a reply to DSaint. Read his last post. He clearly wants everyone to be ineffective.

What...? You serious?
Luckily my post is still there for anyone to read.

snip

Although I still do not agree with you, I can see your point here. Its a fair point of view.