Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?

[Ellatrix]

If you chased away non-hardcore players, this game wouldnt last a year.

FFXI begs to differ.

[Velox]

Everyone against parsers should read this:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Keep in mind the part at the top: "it's not advice for everyone; it's only for those interested in winning."

If you aren't interested in winning, then you shouldn't have any issue with players who want to win not wanting to play with you anymore.

This article really only applies to 0-sum games with specific winning conditions. Most of your single-player and co-op games fall into this catagory. MMOs are completely different, especially sandbox MMOs. MMOs allow for the user to create his/her own winning conditions. For example, Player A has a goal to start a role-play driven player event. He/she collects resources, decides dates and times, organizes helpers, and calculates the goals and rules for the participants. If the event goes off without a hitch, Player A has technically "won" FFXIV based on his/her conditions. He/she can put in just as much time and energy into said event as Player B puts into raiding. They both have seperate winning conditions and both are equally valid gameplay. Neither would be considered "scrubs." The same goes for someone who decides to become a master crafter and focus all his/her energy in becoming the best Carpenter on the server. That person's winning conditions is no less important than anyone elses. If you can't win in one aspect of the game, you are free to try another. There are literally thousands of combinations of game-play that are all equally valid.

That's the joy of MMO gaming, it's 100% freedom of choice. Not everything revolves around end-game raiding and parsers. Only a small portion of the community has made these their winning conditions. The problem is that this small percentage of players feels the need to look down on anyone who doesn't enjoy the same aspects of the game. According to the article, a "scrub" is someone who limits their own potential by creating self-defined rules of behavior. If this is true, then 90% of end-game raiders are scrubs because they refuse to try to win outside of their own self-defined rules. One such rule as, "can't beat end-game without a parser."

[Kaze3434]

This article really only applies to 0-sum games with specific winning conditions. Most of your single-player and co-op games fall into this catagory. MMOs are completely different, especially sandbox MMOs. MMOs allow for the user to create his/her own winning conditions.

not entirely accurate. mmos let the player make personal winning conditions, but those condition only apply to single player events they are doing. those "winning" conditions instantly become faulty when you enter a duty, that gives specific winning conditions. example, winning conditions to beat t12. Defeat Phoenix. someone who has a personal win condition of not using heavy thrust ever may win that condition, but they wont beat that boss.

[Metatronn]

Yeah i read and im nothing like text says. I beated almost all this game has to offer (learning t10 at the moment) without dps calculation parser, without some computer voice, conting how many seconds before some mechanic will come and other things. I think it no fun to win something using this cheats. Yeah thats they are, they arent provided by the game, so its cheating and against the rules.

[Hollowed]

DPS "meters" are good for MMOs, the end.

[Tagihi]

its good for your own playstyle, You wanna push it and get timing on the rotations on ur skills on bosses then it's for you, Some people don't like beacuse always some elitist player suddenly rage on player beacuse that has low dps.

[Radacci]

It's usually obvious if someone is doing bad DPS, so even without parsers, the same ppl would still complain.
Even without DPS meters, toxic players are still going to be toxic, in one way or another.
DPS meters are just tools, tools aren't bad, it's the ppl using the tools, that decide what to do with it.

[Zanmato]

It is a double-edged sword.

On the one side we have those who use parsers, be it against the ToS or not (It is, for now.). When they do, they point it out to the player with the low dps which leads to rejection of the player with the lower dps.

The REAL problem is that the developer, in this case being Square Enix, do not allow parsers so that players can improve and figure out why their damage was low. - To practice, in other words.
Now, because using a parser IS against the terms of service, I take it most players follow the terms of service, like myself. However, the developer must realize that what they are doing is to create a wall of rejection, separating people with lower dps, and hinder them from doing content that requires higher numbered dps. - Sure, the Echo is a thing, but should we really be needing that? No.

They should release an official parser so that players do not have to worry about 3:rd party malware and other malicious stuff. It would let us learn from our mistakes, and it would create cracks in the wall of rejection, eventually, in best case, break a lot of it down.

[Gilraen]

It is a double-edged sword.

On the one side we have those who use parsers, be it against the ToS or not (It is, for now.). When they do, they point it out to the player with the low dps which leads to rejection of the player with the lower dps.

You started good... then you said this.

The REAL problem is that the developer, in this case being Square Enix, do not allow parsers so that players can improve and figure out why their damage was low.

Making an official parser isn't going to stop the prior from happening. In fact, it will become more rampant as it'd be a part of the game and it will be expected that people use it to the exclusivity of most other means of learning, like actually running the dungeons. Alot of the dungeons have mechanics that actually punish damage races, that actually require you to spread the damage out and, heaven forbid, STOP attacking! This reliance and abuse of parsers is what Square is trying to avoid and I'm glad for it.

[Dervy]

Alot of the dungeons have mechanics that actually punish damage races, that actually require you to spread the damage out and, heaven forbid, STOP attacking!

I don't get how you've came to the conclusion that an in game parser will punish players for fights that involve slowing down/pacing your DPS. In fact, it becomes much easier to handle these types of mechanics as you can visually see your DPS output through a UI and neat little numbers. You can aim for a safety DPS target that you should not exceed and keep that steady DPS, rather than having to base everything off assumptions.