We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Lavieh]

i dont play smn much, but i do play sch and also realize smn needs to be fixed, but this is kinda a bad idea since it will affect sch too. the balance on sch vs whm is too bad in some regards on each side, and doing something like this would help give sch a much better edge (and i hate saying that since i do love playing sch more than whm)

Yea, SCH is in an excellent spot, It may be hard to buff SMN without Buffing SCH's.... But there has to be a creative way around that.

[Ghishlain]

Yea, SCH is in an excellent spot, It may be hard to buff SMN without Buffing SCH's.... But there has to be a creative way around that.

Changes like these are part of the reason why it's difficult to balance SMN properly because any changes to the abilities will affect both and SCHs really don't need any buffs.

Things that come to mind that may help the job directly:
-A PIE multiplier tied directly to the SMN soul crystal. This will give you higher MP for better Aetherflow / native MP regeneration. I imagine since "stat growth" is tied to the class / job, it would be just a matter of S-E tweaking the PIE value of this variable to be more suitable
-Adjust Tri-Disaster to be something in vein of Elemental Siphon of XI fame. Something that gives you MP back on command by having your pet out. Perhaps give it an HP drain effect that converts the HP into MP from your pet to add an element of "risk" to using the ability.

On a different tangent, here are some random thoughts in regards to the topic as a whole.

Adjusting Spellspeed to be beneficial to SMN
-Spellspeed is a dead stat for SMN, meaning itemization later down the line will eventually make all the SMNs go "...are you s---ing me?" with the over abundance of SpS in the current gear tier. This will happen on occasion as long as SpS remains a dead stat for SMN. Thus, the better recourse is to adjust how SpS may benefit SMN instead of having S-E look at every set of Caster gear and say "Well, we'll never be able to use SpS ever again because Summoner".

Adjusting for the Future Classes
-One of the complaints I've seen in the thread is the fact there's no point in BRD singing Ballad for the DPS, as Paeon would be much more beneficial. Playing a little's Devil's Advocate here, would that complaint change if there were more MP based classes that don't have infinite resources like a BLM? For example if they released Geomancer which is another ranged DPS using MP as their resource and then Red Mage as a melee DPS with en-spells that slowly burn their MP for melee damage. If your DPS was SMN GEO RDM BRD, this would make much more sense for Ballads. It's something with implications much further down the line, but perhaps worth a topic of discussion and consideration.

Disclaimer: I'm no Summoner, I just like theorycrafting / discussions about balancing~

[Lavieh]

Disclaimer: I'm no Summoner, I just like theorycrafting / discussions about balancing~

Your ideas are extremely valid.

They could change Tri-Disaster to almost anything and it would be of some sort of benefit. Right now it is splash for SMN.

Piety added to the soul crystal would become very static and eventually it would get out dated, a better option is adding Piety to the SMN books (Similar to what they did with Accuracy for healers).

Right now, as a lot of people have mentioned, our pets are unaffected by a lot of things - Spell speed being one of them. Without changing potency's or anything SE could just let our Pets take our Pots and self buffs into effect while also having them be effected by spell speed.

[Ghishlain]

Piety added to the soul crystal would become very static and eventually it would get out dated, a better option is adding Piety to the SMN books (Similar to what they did with Accuracy for healers).

My personal issue with this is by providing a small increase on each ilvl upgrade would make the resource management aspect less and less important overall. Because the spells at level 50 all have the same static value, you're overall resource consumption will be the same regardless if you're i50 or i130. This changes once you add PIE to the weapon that scales with the ilvls and SMN longevity becomes better and better.

From a development standpoint, I feel the challenge in this respect is adding enough PIE to increase SMN longevity without throwing out the window resource management - and that's easier to attack when you're looking at static values. In this respect, all that means is say "all i50+ SMN books now have +50 PIE" or something to that effect (it's a bit of a lazy change, but it would work).

Right now, as a lot of people have mentioned, our pets are unaffected by a lot of things - Spell speed being one of them. Without changing potency's or anything SE could just let our Pets take our Pots and self buffs into effect while also having them be effected by spell speed.

I like this idea for spell speed (as well as the other suggestions).

[Atomnium]

snip

Your ideas are very wise and would works thanks for the share.