Are cracks in the Armoury System beginning to surface?

[Amsai]

First off, the OP is absolutely right. When this game was in development and they said they'd be using this new "classless class" system, I got worried. All I could think of was that it would eventually turn into everyone being required to have every class, and after a couple of years we have a bunch of All-In-One Super Classes running around. Well it turns out that I was some what right. I wouldnt say a person with all battle classes to 50 is an All-In-One Super Class, but they sure are way too over-powered. And look I have had to adopt abilities from every class just so I can effectively tank the new Dungeon.....yea I did it, but I didnt like it one damn bit. I want to feel PRIDE in my class, but I cant beause my native skills are so weak I have to borrow from lolPUG..... WTF is that about? If I wanted to be any other class I would have damn well ranked that one up instead of GLA.

I'm not convinced the mix'n'match abillity puzzle was the real intention behind the Armoury system, at least not initially. If you remember the early "gameplay stories" on the XIV homepage, they were indeed showing people switching from one class to another, not building a best-of-all monster character.
They did mention cross-class abilities, but initially, the scope of that was much smaller, and they were supposed to have more severe penalties.
The idea was to allow players to customize their playstyle, not to create Superman characters.

EXACTLY!

Absolutely! But more power isn't the only possible reward. More flexibility works just as well, and creates less problems with balancing out large power gaps.

THIS.

No that is where I believe the Armoury System is wrong. If someone takes the time to get their chosen Class to R50 they should then not feel they have to level every other Job just to be a great Tank if thats what they want to do.

Someone who takes the time to level everything to R50 has a reward in that they can play any Class in any situation, that is their reward, it should not allow them to create some hybrid super Class that is completely over powered.

THIS..... again!!!

I think it's interesting that so many people say there should be a reward for getting all classes to 50. As far as I'm aware, there already is one - diversity. You get to pick and choose and adapt your group to the fight. A group with many classes leveled is already considerably more dynamic than a group with very few and therefore are already more powerful in one sense.

I don't think that on top of that you should also put others who can't invest the same kind of time to shame on one equal leveled class. Not everyone has the kind of time to make their character awesome, but we should at least be able to level one class to cap and feel somewhat competitive on that one class, just as you could in XI. The armory system turns that idea on its arse. You don't have to even be at level cap to realize that the higher rank skills on other classes will give you a massive advantage.

I also just think it's pretty silly that the strength of your class would depend far more heavily on your rank in other classes you may not even want to play. How does that make sense? In order to play GLA well you should spend three times as long on other classes to get their skills. It's basically like the subjob system turned inside out and the subjob is now your main.

Well said, and you are right, it is silly.

As I had stated that is the entire point of the Armoury system. Mixing and matching class abilities to make an "optimal" build for a specific role. If you want to be the best possible tank you have to not only grab the gear but sink time into getting the cross-class abilities.

Wrong. That was not the point at all. The point might have been to build your own role. However, I very greatly doubt it was to make optimal builds or that it ever should be. The point was to be able to be more versatile and rank up all classes on one character. So if you mix in a few extra abilities you become more versatile. If you mix in too many you become a jack of all trades and a master of none, NOT a master of all trades. And in fact while being more versatile, should be WEAKER LOL.

Classes

Actions will undergo major revisions, along with both the underlying mechanics and conditions.

By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.
We will also make a number of changes as part of our reexamination of how actions are equipped and the character requirements for doing so. First, actions learned by each class will be set to the action bar by default when playing as that class. Also, we will be making some actions settable on any class, while other "class-defining" actions obtained at higher ranks will be usable only by that class.

We are already starting to see the begining of this with them herding Con to be more white magey, and THM to be more black magey. And more class only abilities. I predict they will finally come to their senses and put some kind of reasonable restraints on cross-classing as well as (dare I say it O.O) redistribution of abilities: GLA more tankey(accomplice etc etc. now native to GLA). I have no problem with the cross-classing of abilities in general, but there is no reason why for instance THE tank class should have to hunt down his/her abilities. If I am a new player and I know basically what type of role i want to fill, I should be able to pick a class for that role. Then if I want to be more versatile, I can augment my role with cross-class abilities.

As for Classes vs. Jobs? They have already given us an idea about what it will be like.

Normal GLA = Good tank (solo/casual/light party content)
Uber Cross Classed GLA = Good Tank, but more versatile (Low-Man/Light Party Content) ex: Totorak
Paladin GLA = Best Tank, but little or no versatility (Full Party Content) ex: Darkhold

This is not to say that there will be no middle ground. I am sure there will also be situations where it might be good to have a mix of both classes and jobs.

Imagine this scenario: Full Party Dungeon, and an Insanely powerfull boss along with 2 mini-bosses that are very powerful as well. So you get a Paladin on the big boy with healer support, and a couple of very versatile Gladiators to tank each mini-boss. GLAs heal themselves and possibly other party members, and DDs/Nukers take out the mini-bosses one at a time. Then the GLAs switch to a more DD role and everyone takes out the Mega-Boss.

[kukurumei]

First off, the OP is absolutely right. When this game was in development and they said they'd be using this new "classless class" system, I got worried. All I could think of was that it would eventually turn into everyone being required to have every class, and after a couple of years we have a bunch of All-In-One Super Classes running around. Well it turns out that I was some what right. I wouldnt say a person with all battle classes to 50 is an All-In-One Super Class, but they sure are way too over-powered. And look I have had to adopt abilities from every class just so I can effectively tank the new Dungeon.....yea I did it, but I didnt like it one damn bit. I want to feel PRIDE in my class, but I cant beause my native skills are so weak I have to borrow from lolPUG..... WTF is that about? If I wanted to be any other class I would have damn well ranked that one up instead of GLA.



EXACTLY!



THIS.



THIS..... again!!!



Well said, and you are right, it is silly.



Wrong. That was not the point at all. The point might have been to build your own role. However, I very greatly doubt it was to make optimal builds or that it ever should be. The point was to be able to be more versatile and rank up all classes on one character. So if you mix in a few extra abilities you become more versatile. If you mix in too many you become a jack of all trades and a master of none, NOT a master of all trades. And in fact while being more versatile, should be WEAKER LOL.




We are already starting to see the begining of this with them herding Con to be more white magey, and THM to be more black magey. And more class only abilities. I predict they will finally come to their senses and put some kind of reasonable restraints on cross-classing as well as (dare I say it O.O) redistribution of abilities: GLA more tankey(accomplice etc etc. now native to GLA). I have no problem with the cross-classing of abilities in general, but there is no reason why for instance THE tank class should have to hunt down his/her abilities. If I am a new player and I know basically what type of role i want to fill, I should be able to pick a class for that role. Then if I want to be more versatile, I can augment my role with cross-class abilities.

As for Classes vs. Jobs? They have already given us an idea about what it will be like.

Normal GLA = Good tank (solo/casual/light party content)
Uber Cross Classed GLA = Good Tank, but more versatile (Low-Man/Light Party Content) ex: Totorak
Paladin GLA = Best Tank, but little or no versatility (Full Party Content) ex: Darkhold

This is not to say that there will be no middle ground. I am sure there will also be situations where it might be good to have a mix of both classes and jobs.

Imagine this scenario: Full Party Dungeon, and an Insanely powerfull boss along with 2 mini-bosses that are very powerful as well. So you get a Paladin on the big boy with healer support, and a couple of very versatile Gladiators to tank each mini-boss. GLAs heal themselves and possibly other party members, and DDs/Nukers take out the mini-bosses one at a time. Then the GLAs switch to a more DD role and everyone takes out the Mega-Boss.

Not exactly. The armoury system suffered both from a conception standpoint and a execution standpoint. Both parts have a role to play in the mess. A double whammy for developers who couldn't see beyond the armoury concept.

One for making it harder to get right, and the 2nd part for failing to even make it viable. So both have to be argued kind of separately in that respect.

On thing that FF11 got right, and FF14 got wrong, was how it handle it. Not only because FF11 did class/subclass but also, you can only set it in town.

FF14 didn't learn from its big brother and reason out why that was a restriction very tightly bound(they were very reluctant to even use nomad moogles). The whole, change class, so skills, so armor less restriction, on the fly thing made the armoury system from a monster to a 8 headed-fire-breathing monster.

Not only couldn't developer predict which combination and what not was OPed, and Super OPed, but now that players could change it anywhere, anyway, was even more problematic. And then attaching Weapon skills to it making it a massive combination of balance problems.

I suspected when people starting point out faults developers go "Woopsie...didn't realize I had to balance 10000 different skill combinations, thought they were balanced already" thus epic failure that they didn't even try to touch so they could make a new system easier on themselves.

Not only does FF14 need a system that plays nice for it's players, but also that let's developers easily manage it in the long run. Armoury was neither of those.