Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

[Danbo05]

No, because you'll stick get animation locked, and die.

In all seriousness, Ninja and Summoner are the two most complicated DPS jobs to play. Monk and Dragoons are on par in terms of difficulty. Monks are still top dps anyways. Not by much, but a good enough margin. You still need to hit Chaos Thrust from the back for extra potency, as well as Heavy Thrust from the flank for extra potency. So its similar to Monk, in terms of positionals, to be able to maintain their combos. Monks can be out of position and still maintain their combo and stacks if they keep going. They'll just be losing out on that extra deeps, which is what Dragoon is like now.

[beowulf81]

I think a nice change would have been to make it so that if you miss the positional, you get a huge potency drop as punishment. That would give you a lot more incentive to actually land them, rather than what we see now which is largely "you can miss it and retain most of your DPS"..

if you miss hitting HT from the flank, the attack does 100 instead of 170. that is a drop of over 40%.

When you say they should get a huge potency drop, what exactly are you looking for?

The idea that you should be punished for not being able to hit positionals in a game that has rng mechanics instead of being rewarded for hitting them is beyond retarded.

[Danbo05]

if you miss hitting HT from the flank, the attack does 100 instead of 170. that is a drop of over 40%.

When you say they should get a huge potency drop, what exactly are you looking for?

Shhhh, some people can't math.

[Hammerfist]

Monks are still top dps anyways. Not by much, but a good enough margin.

Sorry to disappoint you but with this patch Dragoons gained roughly 10% of their DPS, which actually puts them quite in the lead as top DPS (even more if you consider the Disembowel buff to Bards).

[Airget]

To be fair, I was just in a dungeon with a DRG on my NIN in qarm HM, in that one the only somewhat fair comparison to see how hate is dealt is with the final boss.

Not taking elusive jump into account cause I honestly didn't hear it go off that often but I managed to keep my hate higher then them through the entirety of the fight I'd say mine was a bit over 50% of the white bar while they might of been around 40-50.

Taking a second look at the changes to DRG I do think some people take for granted what they actually did to DRG.

Life Surge can be used 40 seconds earlier, this means compared to the 90 and now it's 50 you have an extra Life Surge to keep in mind if you are trying to be as efficient as possible.

Same case with Jump, 40 to 30, that's 1 extra Jump in a 120 second period.

The changes to DRG define them as an empowering/time based instant job now with less focus on directions.

While NIN have jutsu and quite honestly all we really need to know is 3-4 and quite honestly they aren't hard to remember now messup on aside from latency because there are always 2 ways to fire them off. Say you want thunder, ten/chi jin/chi, quite honestly NIN is easy to remember, Ration=2 step, remember ends in chi, Katon=2 step, remember ends in Ten
Suiton=3 step, end in Jin
Hoton=3 step, end in Ten
Doton=3 step, end in Chi

*never repeat a hand sign and you're good to go.

Suiton=Trick attack, Hoton=att speed, Doton=aoe DoT, Raiton=single target, Katon=aoe dmg

Our perk is we have a stance that just gives us 20%, set and forget, DRG on the otherhand they have to upkeep it with their abilities and use TP to keep their dmg maximized.

NIN's process of power boost, Set and forget stance (20% increase to physical dmg), Dance Edge combo (10% lower slash resist 20 seconds) . When possible trick attack, then combo it with blood bath/infernal release when possible. Apply 2 step DoT Shadow Fang and Mutilate, in between all that use jutsu when possible.

DRG's prcoess of power is a bit something like this. Heavy Thrust (20 second window of 15% dmg increase), Impulse-Disembowl(30 second of 10% lower pierce resist)-follow up with chaos thrust (from behind 250 potency + 35 Dot for 30 seconds)

DRG has a 3 step DoT that they have to combo, the DoT will always apply but that 50 potency boost can make a big dif in dmg potency overall.

Heavy Thrust has a 70 dif in potency if done right, and it won't combo to the AOE attack if you don't strike from the right position but it is negligible since it is just a combo for an AOE and the 15% dmg increase for 20 seconds does make up for that potential loss of 70. However with that in mind if you were to have blood bath/infernal you would want to make sure you get Hevay Thrust and Chaos Thrust max potency.

Then there is also the case of Jump, you now have 4 Jumps instead of 3 Jumps in the same time frame. And Life surge pretty much for an extra 10 seconds added you now use it 2 times in that time frame.

DRG then also has Jump + Power Surge and this is honestly where the changes to jump shine. Power Surge + Jump, Jump, Power Surge + Jump, Jump, the process of using power Surge is now more organic because with that 20 second difference it use to be a bit more troublesome to execute the combo properly. Power Surge + Jump, Jump, Power Surge active for last 20 seconds because you would rather use it on Jump then Spineshatter Dive moreso because Spineshatter dive can stun a target and in a good handful of boss fights you don't want melee to use their stun moves on the target.

So honestly I don't think people are gonna take quick notice of it til they actually play DRG more but it is a lot more paying attention to when instant abilities are active in place of the old directional concept.

Moreover the huge issue with the way the old positionals were set is because they were openers, a DRG was pretty much like starting a stalled car, If the target moves and if you miss your combo of Impulse, you gotta do it again, if you used heavy before going for impulse you now lost 2.5 seconds from your att boost in order to try impulse again.

The way it goes now is that it rewards you for finishing your combo properly and empowers your AOE attack if you need it. That's the new dynamic for DRG positionals but the main gimmick for DRG now is when to time Life Surge and keeping up witha similar NIN rotation in the vain of Power SUrge + Jump. Since to get the most out of that 300/200 30 second potency attack without losing on to much time you gotta activate them twice every minute.

NIN has raiton, 2 step, every 20 seconds, sometimes Hoton instead and sometimes Suiton instead, maybe Doton for DoT AOE adds and maybe Katon for a quick finish for low HP AOE adds that would not survive the Doton DoT.

But keep this in mind, Raiton=360 potency, Katon 180, Katon an AOE is only 20 weaker than a Jump, while yes DRG has two AOE a 150 and a 170 linear they cost TP to use and can burn them out quickly if they use it to many times.

Honestly I think they did a good job adjusting DRG, they didn't do to little and it looks like they made just the right balance to shift focus on their play-style from positional to active abilities.

[Casper]

I think a nice change would have been to make it so that if you miss the positional, you get a huge potency drop as punishment. That would give you a lot more incentive to actually land them, rather than what we see now which is largely "you can miss it and retain most of yourDPS"..

Totally agree with that. They could also have increased the number of positionnal -- for example ID did not have to lose it, just allow to still combo from it.

Again, it's a hair width of difficulty between each job, so if it's NIN > MNK > DRG or MNK > NIN > DRG or whatever it doesn't really matter. They're all pretty easy so arguing which is more difficult is trivial at best. DRG no longer has positional requirements and can do more DPS - does it really matter to NIN and MNK? Really, does it? NIN still has utility in the form of Goad, a silence or a stun (DRG lacks the former), and a slashing debuff if needed. NIN also has TA which I assume will scale better than Disembowel as people get better gear (could be wrong, just seems like it would). All of them are relatively equal in terms of DPS, and DRG still even lacks group utility. None of them are in a place where they need a buff or a nerf anymore, they're all completely viable.

Nonsense. They are not "easy". When doing challenging content, each thing you have to keep remembering and doing / keeping up adds up. As always, juggling with 3 balls is not that hard, nor is singing, but doing both at once is much much harder than the sum of its parts. Keeping up dots is easy. Positionnal are easy. Mechanics are easy. Keeping up dots while hitting all positionnal while doing all mechanics ? Much much much harder.

And yeah it does matter because no one cares when you learned a fight from A to Z and can do it blindfolded. During progression you WILL make mistakes, and at equal skill a drg will do less than a mnk or a nin, because they just have less to deal with. Period. And if it gets too much thing at once, they know they can just forget about the positionnals altogether and focus only for a while on mechanics and dots/buffs, and they will maintain 99% of their dps. A mnk or nin that does that drops to 85-80% of his dps. That's not negligible.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Before starting, I want to say that I am SCH main so I don't believe I am biased.

DRG needed a buff, this much is certain. The buff it got, honestly, is NOT too much - all things considered.

Here is how I see things:

DRG: High and steady DPS due to increases in potency and less fuck-ups on positional requirements. Still the least utility overall. All they do is LITERALLY just DPS. There is nothing else in this job.
MNK: Potential top dps IF PLAYED CORRECTLY ALL THE TIME. Dps loss is steeper than DRG in case of the player messing up (positionals, losing GL, etc). Arguably the most useful melee DPS in terms of utility. This means that, even if the MNK fucks up and ends up doing less DPS than DRG, it still brings WAY more utility than the Kain wannabees.
NIN: Somewhere inbetween. More utility than DRG but less than MNK. Before the patch it was ahead of DRG in terms of dps, but with DRG buffed the earlier NIN (unnerfed) would have been quite similar, and balanced considering they bring a bit more utility.

So, all in all, I believe that having buffed DRG to let it cover the role of "raw, stable melee DPS with little utility", there was no need to nerf NIN, at all.

Of course FCoB will tell, and I am sure that in the following weeks these boards will be full of debating.

[beowulf81]

Absolute truth

This man gets it.

*respectful nod*

[Ryken]

Is this happening? Monks who bring so much utility and top DPS are seriously complaining? The Mantra, and INT Debuff is not enough?! I don't think Ninjas needed a hit with the nerf bat but they still have a party wide damage increase over just the Bard. This has to be a joke, Dragoons have nothing much going for them aside from flat out damage, I don't see the problem of them standing equally or above other melee jobs. Months of being a joke or denied for Dragoons, now they receive much needed attention and everyone goes nuts, how fickle this community is.

[Arkenne]

In the notes Chaos Trust says to be from Behind, but in game it says Flank :|

My DRG is not lvl 50, could someone confirm??
thanks :v