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  1. #1
    Player
    Casper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    368
    Character
    Casper Theghost
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 50

    Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

    Alright let me start by saying i completely agree Drg needed buffs. Their MDef was the worst offender, and their dps needed to be brought up a bit to be able to compete.


    That being said, i think the changes are quite over the top. It has been estimated that the buffs to dragoon account for an overall 7% dps increase, give or take 1%. This will put them very slightly behind mnks, and significantly above nin, before we factor in disambowel for bards and trick attack. Once we factor both in, nin will be the lowest dps, slightly behind mnk, himself a bit behind drg.

    As far as utility beyond disembowel / TA goes, nin will have goad, mnk dragon kick + mantra, and drg nothing. So far so good, although one could definitely argue that drgon kick and mantra is way more utility than goad and that it is thus unfair for nin to be behind mnk.


    The problem i have with the changes though, is that it makes drg, which was arguably already the easiest of the three to play (although it WAS very punishing if you missed positionning), the lest punishing and easiest class to play.

    All three jobs posses about 3 dot/buff/debuff to maintain up, along with a "normal" combo to fill in, so i will assume things are roughly equal from this PoV.

    Mnk has positionning on all their non dot actions -- and even then, half of each their 1 2 and 3 combo parts are either on flank or side, so it is a constant dance around the boss to maintain top dps, although a miss here and there on the positionning doesn't screw you too much. They also have to maintain GL3, which is very easy to maintain most time, but quite punishing if you miss it.

    Ninja possess one positionnal attack, to be used each minute on the back. Missing it makes you lose, for the minute, about 15 dps from the decrease in potency from TA, and about 20 dps from the lack of party wide damage buff. This makes it the single most harsh positionnal attack to miss, by far, in the game. On top of that, they need to keep up their jutsu rotation, which is a whole different rotation to keep in mind while keeping the rest of the rotation going and dealing with mechanics.

    One can argue which of the two is harder, but there are arguments for both sides, and in the end they are probably both about as challenging / easy (depending on your opinion).

    Dragoon, on the other hand, now possess 2 positionnals, one from the flank every 18 seconds, one from the back every 30 seconds. Those positionals are very forgiving. Actually, if you think about it, you can stay on the flank and only hit the back once every 30 seconds, making it have barely more positionnal requirement than a ninja. Moreover, if you miss the back on CT, you will lose 50 potency. Missing one is thus a loss of 5-6 dps for the 30 seconds, to compare to the 35 dps loss for a ninja for the whole minute should he miss a TA.

    Actually, it is now completely possible for a dragoon to stay on the side of a mob 100% of the time and take the 6 dps loss. 6 dps is within the variation due to luck / crits / etc, which means that no one will ever be able to take the parse of a fight, look at it and say "this drg was 100% on the flank" without going into the gritty details of looking at how much he was hitting CT for compared to other attacks. Also note that when you factor the dps increase from disembowel to the bard, the drg will this provide more dps than a mnk even if he is 100% on flank, as this 6 dps is not enough to put them behind mnks.


    Tl;dr: Is this really what SE intended ? For mnk and ninja to work their ass off, and drg be able to ignore 100% any positionnal, stay on flank full time, and provide more raid dps than any other job ? While changes to dps and resistance for drg were on point and put them in a very good spot, the removal of the need to care about pretty much any positionnal makes them the easiest melee class by far, and seems pretty unfair to both other jobs. In a tight fight situation where ninja and mnk will lose dps due to doing errors in their rotation, drg will pull ahead by quite a good margin just because of how simple it now is to play.
    (13)
    Last edited by Casper; 12-09-2014 at 06:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Jollyy5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    424
    Character
    Raul Prower
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 71
    I just checked the notes, and holy s*it... Gonna be a lot of mad non dragoon players.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Ryzue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Ryzue Ikari
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 60
    Seriously i think they went a little overboard with the dragoon...
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Jollyy5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    424
    Character
    Raul Prower
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 71
    I think the damage boost is okay, but I really didn't need them to make Dragoon baby mode.
    (8)

  5. #5
    Player
    Ryzue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Ryzue Ikari
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 60
    well im surprised about the positional requirements not needed as heavily for them. I can see monk mains getting pissed from reading this considering they are going to literally be the only class that is heavily dependent on positional requirements.
    (3)
    Last edited by Ryzue; 12-09-2014 at 07:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    FyrmurlFloerasksyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    316
    Character
    Roegadyn Masterrace
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    I personally love the changes. (including the positional removal) Want a more difficult job to play? Go monk. Want an easier job to play? Go dragoon etc.
    (7)

  7. #7
    Player
    Sawamura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Norway Zodiark and hyperion
    Posts
    166
    Character
    Rygart Sawamura
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    why SE take away position requirement....
    (0)

    Make no mistake. I'm not you alliances. I'm here cause I just do what I felt is right thing to do.

  8. #8
    Player
    Andyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    27
    Character
    Sophia Storm
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Changes are amazing. Hater's gonna hate.

    If I was was wearing a hat, I'd take it to you SE.

    Drgs 4 life.
    (12)

  9. #9
    Player
    Iselore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Iselore Greyashe
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sawamura View Post
    why SE take away position requirement....
    There is still benefit to landing CT on the rear and FyrmurlFloerasksyn has tested that HT does more damage on the flank. I don't think they intended to fully remove the positional requirements. Just lessen the detrimental effects of missing them.

    To squeeze out the maximum dps for the rotation you still need to be landing those positionals. Just means that if you miss HT on flank you don't get punished so hard for it.
    (4)

  10. #10
    Player
    Krisom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    64
    Character
    Krisom Stillwater
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    I'm not too fond it of either but at the very least there's a big difference between damage of Chaos Thrust and Heavy Thrust when attacking from the right angle.

    For example with only HT buff up.

    Heavy Thrust
    Flank: 379
    Other: 220

    Chaos Thrust (tooltip error it's rear)
    Rear: 616
    Other: 427
    (0)

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