Women and Armor!

[seida]

*I don't think "Sexy"(Don't think thats the right word but its whats been used) armor should be removed entirely and replaced by a new line of conservative armor that covers your body from head to toe like the Darksteel trash can armor, like some of you seem to be requesting, because that wouldn't be equality, it would be completely destroying one side(The side you don't like) so you don't get offended anymore (modern feminism, not that you guys are).

I don't think anyone wants this? To me equality means, if it's sexy on women, it should be sexy on men, too. As many have stated, men and women like to look at each other!

So why do guys get to look at female drg belly, but we don't get to look at male drg belly? It's not "artistic vision", so don't give me that. Because it's designed with straight men in mind, and that's the crux of the matter.

[Thistledown]

Male Wolfeye pvp BLM set has tummy exposed.

[BlaiseArath]

I do

Then you wouldn't have the Closed/Open for both, you'd have 1 copy for each. What I'm proposing is both copies for each. Which would be a lot of design choices.

What you're asking for, and what you seem to not understand, is to remove the mens choice for closed belly button so they are stuck with the one women have... this is as I stated, destroying the opposition rather than actual equality. I propose both choices for both genders, even if that would be quite tiring on development team.

Still, I think if every single piece of armor was gender neutral, it would be boring. I know plenty of women who like the choice too look a bit sexier in armor if they wish too. Is the DRG armor the only real argument you have, or is there other armor that you find looks good on the male version but not on the female? I personally think the exposed belly on DRG AF is stupid, it makes no logical sense, but that doesn't mean I want it removed, I'd rather an option to close it, like /visor for body.

Again, if any adjustments are made, I'd like both options available to each side, not just the petty old debate of "then make them suffer too!"

[seida]

I'm actually not proposing they change any current gear - that would be a lot of work and not worthwhile, in my opinion. I would just like to see such things implemented in future gear.

Options or different sets would be great, but again, a lot of work.

Make them suffer too? Why, you're making it sound like the sexy version is worse or something.

[BlaiseArath]

Make them suffer too? Why, you're making it sound like the sexy version is worse or something.

Nah, Also, I again mentioned I think the design is stupid regardless, and is the furthest thing from a "Sexy" version. Its just dumb. Also technically you can look at a males belly button, a good chunk of the males I know run around in the tropical banana hammock level 1 gear. One set of armor does not a misogynistic game make.

Though I digress, we clearly agree on the subject at hand.

[Ophie-Mio]

What Remilia said was indeed incredibly sexist; and it makes me so frustrated because I can't make him understand why it was sexist (without writing way more than I feel like right now and taking this thread even more off-topic).

By the way, Ophie, post #265 makes me want to propose to you.

Omg, right?! It's so frustrating when him and Amused are just so against seeing the actual points and the opposing perspective.

And that's awesome. XD I had to look it up again and yes, I accept if you do propose. We can totally talk about the history of fashion @.@

[CGMidlander]

What Remilia said was indeed incredibly sexist; and it makes me so frustrated because I can't make him understand why it was sexist (without writing way more than I feel like right now and taking this thread even more off-topic).

Is it the condescending tone?

[Fyrebrand]

Oh my. A lot has happened since I last got to this thread! Uh, I will try to catch up...

Ophie: Thank you, for your explanation of how pink went from a "masculine" to "feminine" color in our society. That was possibly the most interesting thing I've read in this whole thread.

Remilia: Really, I don't know what your deal is, but you have got to stop with this "Be glad men are attracted to women and just let us gawk at your exposed bodies" vibe. I don't know if it's just a miscommunication issue, but it is coming of way more pervy than you probably mean it to sound. Yes, if males and females stopped being sexually attracted to one another, the human race might decline in population. Is that an imminent danger? Does that have anything to do with this topic, or gals wanting to be allowed to dress themselves as they please?

Vorpal_Spork: THANK YOU, for finally contributing something that was actually of relevance to the topic. Was that so hard?

Okay, He-Man. He looks ridiculous. I get that. Unrealistic standard for males to aspire to? Yep, definitely. But the difference between him and Barbie is: He-Man is strong. He-Man is capable, intimidating, successful, self-reliant, honorable, brave, moral, and responsible. He-Man saves the effin' day, and vanquishes evil on a daily basis. Yeah, his outfit is laughably silly and his body proportions are way out of whack, but he was portrayed as a hero figure who gets sh*t done.

Barbie is barely even a conscious entity. Barbie is a gross, malformed thing to put clothes on and bake cookies for Ken. Her hobbies include looking pretty, sitting in her dream house, and being in proximity to ponies and luxury cars. Does she ever do anything? Does she have any admirable characteristics, let alone any characteristics?

Both He-Man and Barbie are juvenile cartoon characters with little depth. But if He-Man were real, we would all thank our lucky stars that he was around to save us all from Skeletor. If Barbie were real, then... well, I guess she would just be Kim Kardashian, one of the most vapidly worthless celebrities of all time. We would literally be better off if she didn't exist.

I guess what you were trying to say is: men also have unfair standards placed on them by society, as women do. But they are not the same thing, nor do the two cancel each other out. You cannot fight sexism with sexism. By all means, create a new thread about demeaning and objectifying video game costumes for men. It would probably be pretty interesting, if done right. But when women complain about Barbie being a poor role model, or that they are often objectified and poorly represented in the media, it does not do any good to simply cite that He-Man exists, and call it a day.

[NozomiKei]

Barbie is barely even a conscious entity. Barbie is a gross, malformed thing to put clothes on and bake cookies for Ken. Her hobbies include looking pretty, sitting in her dream house, and being in proximity to ponies and luxury cars. Does she ever do anything? Does she have any admirable characteristics, let alone any characteristics?

Both He-Man and Barbie are juvenile cartoon characters with little depth. But if He-Man were real, we would all thank our lucky stars that he was around to save us all from Skeletor. If Barbie were real, then... well, I guess she would just be Kim Kardashian, one of the most vapidly worthless celebrities of all time. We would literally be better off if she didn't exist.

While I so far have agreed with you on everything I do have to contest the Barbie thing. Despite her extremely unrealistic proportions Barbie is a super career woman and most definitely didn't just hang around her house all day. Barbie has had over a hundred different careers as everything from doctor, to lawyer, to being president. Barbie is portrayed as an independent, confident, loving woman. I'm not some Barbie fangirl or something but it would be wrong not to point out that Barbie is quite a good role model for young girls (unrealistic body aside).

[seida]

Nah, Also, I again mentioned I think the design is stupid regardless, and is the furthest thing from a "Sexy" version. Its just dumb. Also technically you can look at a males belly button, a good chunk of the males I know run around in the tropical banana hammock level 1 gear. One set of armor does not a misogynistic game make.

Though I digress, we clearly agree on the subject at hand.

Yes, I think we do. I'm also not trying to claim (or imply) it's a misogynistic game, far from it. It mostly does things very well. In the grand scheme of things, this is not even a topic that bothers me greatly. However, a lot of the comments/arguments here do, which is why I keep replying! (sadly).