Objective comparison of Mnk and Nin difficulty to play ?

[Leonus]

That's the difference though. The "problems" that MNK/DRG have pertains to boss movement (tank movement, boss turns, etc..). DRG is less forgiving than MNK in this regards. When you factor this with other mechanics (dodging), it adds additional difficulty to making sure you hit your "spot". You don't deal with any of that with NIN.

There is only one "difficulty" with NIN, and it's mudras. That however, is a "controlled" difficulty (for the most part). That is, you mess up Mudra then it's your fault...not the boss mechanics, not the tank's...but yours. The only "uncontrolled" difficulty of NIN is the lag in casting Mudra. I suffer from this a lot on dungeons, and it was ultimately what made me decide to stick to DRG (i really found NIN more enjoyable to play). I just don't have the confidence that I can hit my mudras consistently given my internet connectivity.

2 things.

the second half of your post I agree with and is what I was eluding to by saying "cuss myself out". It's because a failed mudra cast is usually my fault. Not all the time, but usually. Controlled difficulty is a good way to put it. Mudras are also quite easy to mess up.

The other is..
Mnk and Drg positional attacks are controlled in most fights. It's just mnk is punished nowhere near the same level as drg for missing them as you stated (i was a drg main)and mnks just shrug it off. You have to have to be flawless as a drg to compete with an above average mnk. In that sense, should mnk be nerfed? No.

I don't have a particular issue with a small nerf to min, as long as it's that... small. My issue comes from people saying mnk has to work harder and that nin is free an therefore should be weaker. Each class has their own challenges.

I also don't know if you were agreeing with me or not in a sense.

Bad ninja's are not on the heels of the best monks. If they are, then that mnk is not as good as he or she thinks they are. Bad ninja's flub multiple jutsus constantly, don't keep up dots and don't pay attention. If great mnks are barely in front of that ninja... then the mnks themselves are bad.

[treuhavik]

It's just NINJA is punished nowhere near the same level as MONK for missing them as you stated and NINJAs just shrug it off. You have to have to be flawless as a MONK to compete with an above average NINJA.

Since this isn't about DRGs, I fixed this for ya.

MNK does work harder for the damage it achieves. Even if it only comes down to positionals, that's a lot of extra buttons a NIN isn't having to push. Neither are "hard" but NIN is less difficult.

Edit: I'll add that I have both at i112 and, admittedly, I was just as salty when I heard the news. It's a ton of fun doing 90% of my MNK's damage on NIN with very little effort, but is it right that that's possible? Not really.

[Leonus]

Since this isn't about DRGs, I fixed this for ya.

MNK does work harder for the damage it achieves. Even if it only comes down to positionals, that's a lot of extra buttons a NIN isn't having to push. Neither are "hard" but NIN is less difficult.

Moving yourself left and right foes not count as working harder. I can do that on ninja even though I don't have to just to even things out.

Mnk doesn't have to deal with mudras and the extra rotation that comes with it. Ninja messes up Mudra cast on futon/suiton/raiton it's a pretty big dps loss. Mnk dps loss comes from not being in position or loosing GL3. As long as the mnk can continue to hit the boss he won't loose it (GL3 anyway and it's essentially free). At that point it's not maintaining GL3, it's just dps' ing the boss.

Edit: Not gonna count dots since the both upkeep theirs. Just because mnk has positionals and ninja has 2 ( one of which is barely used) doesn't make one harder than the other when it's dealing with another rotation entirely.

I'd ninja had a positional for every move and had to deal with mudras we'd see a lot of complaining about how it's too hard or convoluted.

The two just deal with different things.

[treuhavik]

So don't mess up your ninjutsu casts. As SpecialKK stated, a NIN's damage is in their control 100%. I rarely ever have issues casting jutsu but frequently have issues keeping GL3 and finding the correct positioning in encounters where the target is moving.

Edit: As for movement, that was an example. If NIN had positionals attached to their actions along with ninjutsu, their damage might be justified.

[Leonus]

So don't mess up your ninjutsu casts. As SpecialKK stated, a NIN's damage is in their control 100%. I rarely ever have issues casting jutsu but frequently have issues keeping GL3 and finding the correct positioning in encounters where the target is moving.

Did you read my post and how I referenced "I" when talking about ninjutsu? I get very upset with MYSELF when I mess up ninjutsu.

I don't have many issues with ninja or the ninjustsu however, ninjustsu is 90-99% on the player and sometimes on the connection. However, keeping track of dots (Melee rotation)/ninjutsu timer/ninjustsu rotation/oGCDs/Kusatsu and mechanics can be rough. I'm also human, and i do mess up sometimes but that's getting very few and much farther in between.

I have even LESS problems on mnk than my Nin/Drg barring when I loose the boss for a fixed amount of time. If I do, I just PB if it's up and I won't/shouldn't need it for another phase.

AGAIN I don't have a problem with slight nerfs to ninja, my issue is when people try and justify it because they think mnk is harder.

[SpecialKK]

2 things.

the second half of your post I agree with and is what I was eluding to by saying "cuss myself out". It's because a failed mudra cast is usually my fault. Not all the time, but usually. Controlled difficulty is a good way to put it. Mudras are also quite easy to mess up.


The other is..
Mnk and Drg positional attacks are controlled in most fights. It's just mnk is punished nowhere near the same level as drg for missing them as you stated (i was a drg main)and mnks just shrug it off. You have to have to be flawless as a drg to compete with an above average mnk. In that sense, should mnk be nerfed? No.

I don't have a particular issue with a small nerf to min, as long as it's that... small. My issue comes from people saying mnk has to work harder and that nin is free an therefore should be weaker. Each class has their own challenges.

I also don't know if you were agreeing with me or not in a sense.

Bad ninja's are not on the heels of the best monks. If they are, then that mnk is not as good as he or she thinks they are. Bad ninja's flub multiple jutsus constantly, don't keep up dots and don't pay attention. If great mnks are barely in front of that ninja... then the mnks themselves are bad.

Yeah I agree that NIN doesn't need a huge nerf. So long as they aren't drastically changed, they should be fine along with the changes to DRG (though I'm not sure about the positional changes to the job, we'll have to see I guess).

I don't have a high level MNK so I can't attest to their combos, and perhaps there's a familiarity with DRG (I've been playing it for a year), but I find myself looking at my buttons more with NIN than with DRG. In that sense, they do have a lot to keep an eye on to keep their DPS up.