Objective comparison of Mnk and Nin difficulty to play ?

[treuhavik]

How is that? GL3 once up is up.. On the occasion it goes down it's not "difficult" whatsoever to get back up, just do the same moves you always do or pop PB. There's no added difficulty in that, it's not technical in any way. Mudras require perfect execution every 20 sec for the entire fight, you really can't compare that to GL3, they are totally different mechanics.

It isn't difficult, but time consuming. Once GL3 goes down, so does your DPS, considerably, and with out PB, you'll be hurting longer than a NIN who messed a Huton cast - they aren't losing a direct damage modifier.

Ideally, where I think nin should be is below mnk sustained but still pretty high, and below drgs max burst but still decently high. It should be in between the two on those spectrums. All 3 should be very, very close in damage over the course of a long fight.

100% agree with this. IMO, that's where NIN was, DRG just needed some love.

[Leonus]

It isn't difficult, but time consuming. Once GL3 goes down, so does your DPS, considerably, and with out PB, you'll be hurting longer than a NIN who messed a Huton cast - they aren't losing a direct damage modifier.



100% agree with this. IMO, that's where NIN was, DRG just needed some love.

Takes like 18 seconds with out PB to get GL3 right? Something like that. It takes nin close to 22 seconds to get hit on back.

Around 12 seconds or so mnks damage boost is higher than ninja's again with at least gl2 and FoF (23% right?) And mnk is at gl3 before nin get Futon back.

Idk, It might be a comparable dps loss in that instance, but ninja's jutsu rotation is behind by 20 seconds from that point on.

I don't know the exact numbers there.

Edit: well then never mind lol. Futon is up before GL3 by 3 seconds if it takes 25 seconds. I thought it was less time than that. Always seems like less time.

[treuhavik]

Takes like 18 seconds with now PB to get GL3 right?

GL3 would take around 25 seconds manually but again, GL doesn't just affect SkSp.

[PenelopeWinn]

and tp issues are not YOUR worry

Please keep this filth out of your otherwise ok argument.

[treuhavik]

OP,

Here's my scale of difficulty achieving potential DPS:

MNK - Positionals, GL > NIN - Occational murdra lag


For the "NIN = Braindead, MNK = Rocket Science" thing, it's silly. For me, no job is faceroll if you play it optimally and no job is remotely difficult.

NIN gets a break from positional potency and requirements and, despite a little lag on the casts every once in a while, it's easier overall to play in comparison to MNK.

Even though I don't feel the work NIN does is worth the damage it's able to out-put, I do not support it being nerfed. I'm sure I'll still find it as fun, but I will always prefer the job with the higher damage ceiling.

[Felessan]

Nin has kisses which already give 20% increase. They arent really position strict i.E boss does some huge aoe you can go right back to dpsn at max instead of taking 3 combo rotations to get pack at max dmg

Monk have 5% permanent buff, than another 10% early on rotation and than 9% with each stack of GL. On other hand Monk have its blunt debuff as first skill in chain, while NIN as only third one, so monk damage bonus is not really worse than nin (monk have 15% bonus after 1st skill, 25% after second and 34% after third, while nin have 20% after first and second and 30% after third skill)

So don't mess up your ninjutsu casts. As SpecialKK stated, a NIN's damage is in their control 100%

Not 100% as Nin does have positional attack. And missing it is VERY painful both for Nin and for party. Also this attack (TA) have a very small execution window if you have Kassatsu up and want Huton uptime without breaks.

[whiskeybravo]

Monk have 5% permanent buff, than another 10% early on rotation and than 9% with each stack of GL.

You don't get DK debuff until proper form, so it's not right off the bat, it's at least 4 GCDs in.

[DenebPunkin]

I am quite unconvinced by those claims, and while i don't think nin is harder to play than mnks, i do not think there is a huge difference in difficulty between the two, and certainly none that warrants a nerf when nin is already the one with lesser damage and utility (although very slightly on both accounts).

When all is said and done, i feel like the jutsu complexity does make up for the positionals and then some, and that both jobs feel equally complex to play out. However, when reading stuff on the forum or reddit, it seems quite a large part of the playerbase feel like ninja is braindead and mnk is rocket science. What's the take of people here ? Care to elaborate on the subject a bit ?

Nins actually have the most utility out of the 3 DPS currently.. more so then Mnks. Nins bring a TP refresher, and a nice party wide 10% damage boost and dont have positional requirements to be at optimal DPS. MnKs only really have the 10% lowering of intelligence which only really benefits castor dps, similar to how the only utility our lovable DRGs bring is a damage booster for BRDs specifically. Enhanced Mantra is also nice but healers usually do just fine without it. As it stands, Nins bring the most utility and require the least amount of "skill" to be at optimal DPS levels. Monks are a little more complex then nins to maintain optimal DPS, and most fights make GL3 uptime a non-issue. DRGs have the least utility, require the most "skill" and are punished the most if a single mistake is made in their very strict rotation.

Still.. I really dont understand the sudden need to nerf ninjas. Sure they are braindead easy to play and result in great DPS when you are still half asleep.. but they still fall short of competent Monks... who themselves are a tad more difficult to play then Nins. I think some of the louder whiners really exaggerated the "OP-ness" of ninjas and SE seemed to believe them for it. But we shall if the nerfs really do make "ninjas" worse.. I dont think they will.

[Niamh_Rillemaugh]

MnKs only really have the 10% lowering of intelligence which only really benefits castor dps, similar to how the only utility our lovable DRGs bring is a damage booster for BRDs specifically.

WUT.

That 10% intelligence decrease lowers the damage of any magic attacks that the debuffed target uses. And any Monk with even a passing knowledge of their class will have it up 100% of the time, whereas the 10% increase to damage taken by the target is for 10s and on a 60s cooldown.

[abzoluut]

When I read your post I stumbled over your disclaimer. Objective is difficult when you don't even have it leveled. I can read your implicit opinion about how NIN is far more complex than people think. A bit strange to compare it to stuff you only read. xD

NIN feels way too forgiving compared to MNK. I also think I can "slack" and still be close to NIN's ceiling damage. On MNK not so much (on DRG you just can't, hence the "fix").

Apart from that I don't think MNK and NIN differ much when it comes to difficulty to play they both have their things to keep an eye on to really max dps.

You compared mudra's to positioning for example. Mudra's are in the players hands where a position depends on the boss, tank, task you could have etc. Not a good comparison imho.