Quote Originally Posted by TrystWildkey View Post
They've just gone too far in my book.

My subscription ends in 9 days and I will NOT be renewing.

People keep saying they're ok with cash shop as long as it's not pay to win. Define 'win'. Winning in an MMO is different for every player. Winning to me would have been collecting all of the vanity gear, making furnishings for a house so I could constantly rearrange it, getting married and having a 2 person mount for me and my sweetie. So for me, this is already 'pay to win'. And I'm done.

The never-ending gear treadmill, the personal housing farce, the paid retainers to begin with and now, marriage.

Nope. Nope.

"They only pay attention to subscriber numbers" Ok
"If you don't like it, unsubscribe." Ok.

Unsubscribing, see ya.

P.S. For those of you who are totally in favor of a cash shop, do me a favor? At the end of a year, total up the money you've spent on this cash shop and take at least a full minute to think about whether or not it's really been worth it.....

Hm...

What I think the dev had in mind when they said it's not "pay to win", they were refering to PvP/PvE content, where you "can win". How? Let alone if it's easy, hard, mindless, overcomplicated, whatever. You can win by... clearing the dungeons, raids and PvE content in general. You have a lockout system to hold the gear that is given to the players. So, let's start with this, YOU HAVE A LOCKOUT. They are already controlling the gear you can get/week.

The better the gear, the easier the content. If you can get that gear, without grinding for weeks to get one chest piece, you're "paying your win". You receive something by clearing the content, you "win" stuff like titles, achievements, KNOW ABOUT THE STORY (Guys, the T12+ cutscenes are... amazing), gear which is the main goal of doing PvE and the experience of doing said content. It doesn't matter if the gear system is not the best, the game rewards you with gear by doing PvE content and other stuff.

Same for PvP, you grind it for wolf seals. Granted, the PvP gear only works in Wolf's Den, but for people doing that, it would be just plain unfair to see someone decked out in cash shop gear. This game doesn't have a competitive PvP, which is the dev's decision. It's hard to see people hardcoring their way with it. But the same thing applies here.

Now, let's talk about minions. You receive a minion. Does it give you an achievement, can you show off all the minions you have? That guy over there has that one minion that you can't get because it's paid. So? It's your personal goal to get them all, the game doesn't reward you by getting them but by GIVING them to you as a reward for doing other stuff. You're not losing or winning anything because the more minions you have, you get nothing in exchange! It doesn't benefit you on anything! Same applies to mount and it's even more limited because you can't even use them in main cities.

TL;DR: PvE/PvE is content where you can have a "pay to win" because they reward you if you clear it, things like minions and mounts don't give you nothing in exchange and they don't benefit you. They're not pay to win. It's subjective to think the opposite, because it's your "personal goal", but nothing else. It's not hard to understand.


Edit: This includes DoL and DoH and fall into "pay to win" if you can buy something that benefit such classes, because they have a direct impact to the game.