Women and Armor!

[Ophie-Mio]

That argument would work better if you truly needed BIS gear for a particular level to be able to level to 50 or run level appropriate dungeons. You don't.

Completely missing the point.

We don't feel insulted or "reduced" or threatened or whatever, and we don't insult, "reduce" or threaten female chars by stating we like their skimpy outfits.

Good for you. Too bad no one here but you is talking as if they are the general populace. Personally, I'm not saying that I feel "reduced", "insulted" or "threatened" by skimpy outfits. I just want a choice in the matter. My whm mini-skirt/underwear certainly didn't give me a choice of whether or not I wanted my ass to be hanging out. It just was out and I had to deal with it.
I got the acton to cover up my butt as soon as a friend mentioned that my ass cheeks were hanging out and I felt embarrassed.

And no, you personally may not be when stating that you like skimpy outfits but the entire game industry caters to the male population that wants women in revealing outfits for their pleasure. They don't actually care if women like to wear it or not.

Since you said that it's not a matter of the practicality, or that it's still tame, how is it objectifying?

I'm not going to address your first portion because like I said to Teryaani, it's not the point. The best stats are what I wanted, the revealing top not so much.
I actually found it hilarious how even when I was a male Miqote that the shawl was more covered up than the female one.

But the reason why it's objectifying is that the male one doesn't have the skin showing. Why not make the drg AF equal and have skin showing for both? If that was the case, it would lead to the only other argument which is that it's impractical.
Why does the female one need the skin window? It's objectifying because the female one IS the only one that does has the skin showing. Why? Because of the unsaid reasoning that in the mind of the developers they wanted skin to show on a female model. Why? Because it's sexy and they want a woman to have skin showing. They don't think it's sexy for men to have the belly window so they covered it up. It's a double standard.

Do you also (not just you, everyone on that side of the fence) consider nude classical art to be tasteless, sexist, or objectifying?

I honestly can't believe I'm answering this but if we're going by common classical examples, no, it isn't. Back then, the idea of nudity was to behold the human body in its glory. It's also why the original olympics were done in the nude. Celebration of man's natural form. However, that is not what FFXIV developers had in mind when they developed some of the outfits for female's in this game.
Fanservice, which is what they had in mind, is a harmless word until you understand its meaning. It's the idea that either gender is objectified for the other gender. It happens on both sides and both sides is sexist and highly against the actual core idea of feminism.

Because then it's a double standard.

It's not. The thread is about Women and Armor. If the men wanted to complain about their armor, they would do so in a Male and Armor thread. I'm saying that they aren't complaining here in this specific thread so therefore it had no place to be brought up here.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Good for you. Too bad no one here but you is talking as if they are the general populace. Personally, I'm not saying that I feel "reduced", "insulted" or "threatened" by skimpy outfits. I just want a choice in the matter. My whm mini-skirt/underwear certainly didn't give me a choice of whether or not I wanted my ass to be hanging out. It just was out and I had to deal with it.
I got the acton to cover up my butt as soon as a friend mentioned that my ass cheeks were hanging out and I felt embarrassed.

And no, you personally may not be when stating that you like skimpy outfits but the entire game industry caters to the male population that wants women in revealing outfits for their pleasure. They don't actually care if women like to wear it or not.

"The entire game industry catering to the male population" might have been true in the past, but sure as hell things are changing - just look at the latest Dragon Age. But back on topic, you are accusing me of "talking as if I were the general populace", when in this thread there are people wishing developers would change armors FOR EVERYONE just because they do not approve them. Sure, some players support this request, as some other players are openly against it. We, discussing here, are only an irrelevant minority so if you accuse me of "speaking as if I am the general populace" the same could be said to you and other people supporting your view.

I can easily speak singular instead of plural, and it would not change anything.

As said, you HAVE choice. Most of the armors in this game are NOT revealing on females - some of them clearly are, yes, because the same design on males would be ridiculous and the developers wanted to give females some cute and sexy designs. . So what? Glamour them. You are talking as if FFXIV was Tera Online, come on.

Also..embarassed because your pixel avatar is showing a bit of ass? Are you serious?

That is you speaking as if you're the general populace. I'm not accusing. I'm pointing out a fact. The only thing that could be said of me is that I'm speaking of myself as in all my posts, I've said "Personally" and lots of "I, me's" and other such singular whatnot.

That was me stating the most likely reason "male players are not complaining about revealing male armors", cause there are plenty of scantily clad male characters and NPCs running around, for sure. And I still stand my ground, I really do believe that male players simply do not care about it / do not see it as "objectifying", and this is why they are not complaining. I hardly see threads about "OMG male armors are too revealing" on this forum. So yeah, I was speaking as the "general populace" in this specific context and I still believe I was right. Sue me.

And what others on this thread are saying is that it's ridiculous to them. Why are the males protected by the "ridiculous" clause but women aren't? There are people who find the DRG AF window ridiculous but it doesn't protect the female design of it.
Personally, I'd love to see the idea of what's cute and sexy from a woman's perspective vs. a male's but given that I have no idea how many women actually compromise the developing team...

Males are protected by the "ridiculous" clause because that's how it is. Ever noticed how many females wear the recently introduced male wedding gear, and manage to look cool in it? Ever seen a male char looking cool by dressing with the female dress?
Thought so.
As said, you can't put an absolute territory on a male Roegadyn and not find it ridiculous and grotesque. Female chars are usually blessed with the ability to be able to wear pretty much anything without looking like this:

If you don't understand that point of view, then that is purely you being unable to see the perspective of someone else.

[Ophie-Mio]

We, discussing here, are only an irrelevant minority so if you accuse me of "speaking as if I am the general populace" the same could be said to you and other people supporting your view.

We are not complaining about it because we believe it's an unreasonable complaint, for BOTH sexes. We don't feel insulted or "reduced" or threatened or whatever, and we don't insult, "reduce" or threaten female chars by stating we like their skimpy outfits.

That is you speaking as if you're the general populace. I'm not accusing. I'm pointing out a fact. The only thing that could be said of me is that I'm speaking of myself as in all my posts, I've said "Personally" and lots of "I, me's" and other such singular whatnot.

...some of them clearly are, yes, because the same design on males would be ridiculous and the developers wanted to give females some cute and sexy designs.

And what others on this thread are saying is that it's ridiculous to them. Why are the males protected by the "ridiculous" clause but women aren't? There are people who find the DRG AF window ridiculous but it doesn't protect the female design of it.
Personally, I'd love to see the idea of what's cute and sexy from a woman's perspective vs. a male's but given that I have no idea how many women actually compromise the developing team...

Also..embarassed because your pixel avatar is showing a bit of ass? Are you serious?

Yeah, though you clearly find it silly, me being embarrassed is as normal as you wanting to appear sexy or cute to yourself or to others in game. Your character is sometimes the only face that people will ever see of you. It's your image and should reflect what you want it to reflect. If you don't understand that point of view, then that is purely you being unable to see the perspective of someone else.