Women and Armor!

[Aegis]

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol"

Try again. They are based on Mithra in XI which were not in any way fanservicey. No upskirts, no ridiculous cleavage. I think the most fanservicey thing they could wear was a subligar. Byakko's Haidate was shorts iirc rather than the baggier pants like it was on other races, but that was about it.

If you don't think changing gear design to expose more when transferred to a female character is anything other than objectification, I'd be interested to know why. You may be cool with the objectification, your gf may be cool with it. That's fine. But it's objectification nonetheless.

please throw your feminism at someone else, as I am quite immune :P

Are you sure that's a good thing?

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Try again. They are based on Mithra in XI which were not in any way fanservicey. No upskirts, no ridiculous cleavage. I think the most fanservicey thing they could wear was a subligar. Byakko's Haidate was shorts iirc rather than the baggier pants like it was on other races, but that was about it.

Try again yourself, and maybe purchase the official artbook. What I am stating is clearly written there, sorry to break it on you. The "Idol" concept and the cosplayer community (female cosplayers, of course) were the things behind the Miqo'te outfit (also the poses, I'd say).
And anyway, stating that they were based off the Mithras is shortsighted to say the least - as if the Mithra were the first catgirls in the history of Japan.

If you don't think changing gear design to expose more when transferred to a female character is anything other than objectification, I'd be interested to know why. You may be cool with the objectification, your gf may be cool with it. That's fine. But it's objectification nonetheless.

Whatever. I think YOU are the one objectifying women, as I never thought of it that way. I am just stating how nature is: men like women, women like men. Sometimes men like men and women like women. But in all cases, if someone thinks something else is beautiful, it's only natural to be attracted to it. If you think this means "objectifying", that's your issue.

Are you sure that's a good thing?

Yes, I am sure. I am for equality, and feminism is the death of equality.

[Aegis]

Try again yourself, and maybe purchase the official artbook. What I am stating is clearly written there, sorry to break it on you. The "Idol" concept and the cosplayer community were the things behind the Miqo'te outfit (also the poses, I'd say).
And anyway, stating that they were base off the Mithra is shortsighted to say the least - as if the Mithra were the first catgirls in the history of Japan.

The ARR artbook? You are aware that miqo'te existed before ARR? Miqote are based on Mithra, I don't see how that's in any way deniable. Just like Lalafell are based on Taru Taru and Roegadyn are based on Galka. That particular costume may be designed with cosplayers in mind, but that's not what you said. You said:

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol"

I don't see how defending the outfit as being 'aimed at cosplayers' makes it any less tacky.

Whatever. I think YOU are the one objectifying women.

Show me how I have reduced a female to her physical attributes. I have advocated nothing more than gear not changing when transferred across genders solely for the purpose of being more revealing (Such as DRG AF or the Coatee set).

I am just stating how nature is: men like women, women like men. Sometimes men like men and women like women. But in all cases, if someone thinks something else is beautiful, it's only natural to be attracted to it. If you think this means "objectifying", that's your issue.

I never argued that being attracted to someone is in any way wrong (though I would worry about being attracted to a computer game character). That's a strawman. What I am arguing is that altering gear across genders for the sole purpose of being more revealing is objectification. That's pretty cut and dry.

Yes, I am sure. I am for equality, and feminism is the death of equality.

Without this 'death of equality' your gf would not be able to vote and wouldn't be paid as much as her male colleagues.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

The ARR artbook? You are aware that miqo'te existed before ARR? Miqote are based on Mithra, I don't see how that's in any way deniable. Just like Lalafell are based on Taru Taru and Roegadyn are based on Galka. That particular costume may be designed with cosplayers in mind, but that's not what you said.

That's not the point. Why is a catgirl race present in the first place? I am pretty sure you understand how popular the concept of "catgitls" is, especially for asian anime fans. And guess what - most of the time they are "sexualized in a cutesy way", just like most idols. Miqo'te is a fanservice race, cut and dry - ever wondered why Mithras and 1.0 Miqo'tes were female only?

I don't see how defending the outfit as being 'aimed at cosplayers' makes it any less tacky.

Hey, if a female cosplayer (most of them, it seems) wants to dress like that, who are we to limit their freedom? No one if forcing them, please be aware of this.

Show me how I have reduced a female to her physical attributes. I have advocated nothing more than gear not changing when transferred across genders solely for the purpose of being more revealing (Such as DRG AF or the Coatee set).
I never argued that being attracted to someone is in any way wrong (though I would worry about being attracted to a computer game character). That's a strawman. What I am arguing is that altering gear across genders for the sole purpose of being more revealing is objectification. That's pretty cut and dry.

You are the one who brought up the word "objectify" in the first place. I just stated that, of course, you can't put Zettai Ryouiki on a male char. I mean, you can, but it would be disgusting. On females it's cute. I still don't see what's wrong with that, it's the same reason in real life girls use skirts and high heels and makeup. Is that "objectifying" as well? Are girls "objectifying" themselves? Nietzsche kinda said this actually, but those were old times I guess.

Without this 'death of equality' your gf would not be able to vote and wouldn't be paid as much as her male colleagues.

Oh come on. I agree with you on this, but THAT kind of equality has been reached ages ago, now. Let's not compare vote rights to Miqo'te clothes, please.

[seida]

A lot of people here seem to be missing the point.

The vast majority of us like sexy clothes - we like the OPTION of sexy clothes.

But it is frustrating when the SAME piece of gear looks one way on a guy but is "sexified" up when on girls.

THAT is the issue.

If I see a male character wearing a cool piece of unisex gear, it's disappointing if it looks different and suddenly my boobs are out when on me.

Sexy gear = good.
Gear that is not revealing on guys but suddenly revealing on girls, NOT good.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

A lot of people here seem to be missing the point.

The vast majority of us like sexy clothes - we like the OPTION of sexy clothes.

But it is frustrating when the SAME piece of gear looks one way on a guy but is "sexified" up when on girls.

THAT is the issue.

If I see a male character wearing a cool piece of unisex gear, it's disappointing if it looks different and suddenly my boobs are out when on me.

Sexy gear = good.
Gear that is not revealing on guys but suddenly revealing on girls, NOT good.

Again, what would you suggest, then?

The only solution would be to design male and female versions of many gear sets, and this is hardly doable budget-wise.

[Adormus]

Again, what would you suggest, then?

The only solution would be to design male and female versions of many gear sets, and this is hardly doable budget-wise.

But that's exactly what they do right now. Full Plate Armour for males and Skimpy Bikinis for females. Both named "Dark Shadow Gear of Ultimate Protection".

What I would suggest: Any normal gear should be unisex. I don't mind skimpy stuff, but I'd rather refrain from using it (at least the skimpier stuff). So just add those things as vanity stuff. Problem solved.

[Dotsusama]

Again, what would you suggest, then?

The only solution would be to design male and female versions of many gear sets, and this is hardly doable budget-wise.

They already design two versions of every set. Only they make the female versions skimpy and show more skin, so not only is it's doable, it's been done. To death.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

But that's exactly what they do right now. Full Plate Armour for males and Skimpy Bikinis for females. Both named "Dark Shadow Gear of Ultimate Protection".

What I would suggest: Any normal gear should be unisex. I don't mind skimpy stuff, but I'd rather refrain from using it (at least the skimpier stuff). So just add those things as vanity stuff. Problem solved.

That's not what I meant. What I meant is to design both versions of the same armor and let each version being equippable by both sexes. This would require A LOT of work.

Currently they design a set and adjust it automatically if it's being worn by a male or a female. Again, if you want unisex stuff look how the Noct Lorica turned out to be. No, thanks.

[Adormus]

That's not what I meant. What I meant is to design both versions of the same armor and let each version being equippable by both sexes. This would require A LOT of work.

Currently they design a set and adjust it automatically if it's being worn by a male or a female. Again, if you want unisex stuff look how the Noct Lorica turned out to be. No, thanks.

Adjusting meshes is actually not really time consuming. You're basically saying that designing two different costumes is cheaper and faster than adjusting meshes for a different body type. Which isn't logical at all. Noct Lorica is a sole example and could be easily fixed by a different texture. I'd guess they were just lazy.

Anyway: I like practical armour, which is there to defend the wearer. Even if it was too expensive to design those for females as well (which is honestly a bs argument), they could at least make them equal in defense.