Women and Armor!

[TheCurls]

I could show you this.

http://i.imgur.com/zWvHHYB.png

You're like 20.000km off. It's not about sluts, slutty appereance or anything like it. I like looking at women just like the next guy. That's not the problem.
The problem however is, that a Male Paladin tanks some Garlean Panzer while being full clad in plate armour to minimize the damage. The female Miqo'te next to him has covered her breats and pelvis. That's it. And that's the problem. Let them have their skimpy and appealing outfits. I don't mind. But move those to vanity gear, not main gear.

Don't you think that AF gear -is- vanity gear nowadays? We're up to i130.

[Felis]

Show me some fan service gear from XI or early XIV then. That shouldn't be too hard, should it?

From december 2010

Since open beta 1.0:

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Why are you arguing about cosplayers? They have nothing to do with gender dimorphic gear. They can choose to cosplay in DRG AF without the belly window, female characters in this game can't.

I am arguing about cosplayers because they are one of the main reasons female Miqo'tes have been designed with the "idol" concept in mind. And idols are all around appearance. Seems to me relevant enough.

Because that's what it is, I don't understand why what we are saying isn't getting through to you. You seem intelligent and articulate enough. Is it just that damaging to your sense of self to accept that just maybe you don't care about others (in this case women) as much as you thought you did? To not accept that somethign you like is actually degrading to them?

Point is, it's not "objectifying" at all. This is a word that simply means "I don't agree with it, so it's not fine!". Deciding by default that a girl should not dress skimpy is what's objectifying. You are assuming that "how you dress is how you are". This is not the case. Showing a bit of cleavage is not degrading at all, it's no different than men showing their biceps or abs. They are just showing what the other sex wants to see. If you believe this is degrading, again, the problem is yours.

What if they were not allowed to leave the house without high heels and makeup? Still no problem? It's the removal of choice. Female character's can't wear a coatee without their boobs hanging out. They can't wear DRG AF without showing their midriff or Ninja AF without showing cleavage.

I also can't wear a bikini as a man. Why am I not allowed to do so? I totally can, in real life. Not that I tried, mind you. Probably.

Really? You really believe women are paid the same as men? It's refusing to see the problem which perpetuates the problem. Perhaps you should consider if you aren't being a little wilfully obtuse. It's not a weakness to re-evaluate your position after arguments from others.

I believe that quite often women find a job easier than man, for the sole reason they are women. At least where I live. And I am talking about honest, serious jobs, before you start suggesting other stuff.

Well, you said earlier something about it being disgusting.

I like there being cute and sexy things to glamour. I just wish UNISEX items were more equal. Not sure why that's such an offensive idea.

And I still believe that. Still, as long as I am not forced to play one, I don't really care. Most of the playerbase would still play female Miqo'tes like me, so everything would be fine :P

Your idea is not offensive. It's simply not needed considering it would require all "mandatory" sets (Tomes and Dungeon / Raid drops) to be unisex. That means, MOST of the gear would not be cute on female chars. And cute female chars is what most people want to see.

From december 2010

Now that's a very nice Rank B Absolute Territory.

[Fyrebrand]

Guys, seriously.

"Why is the same armor more revealing for female characters?" should not even be a serious question.

The answer is simply "fanservice".

Do you even realize that females are human beings (half the human population, in fact), and not just sexy playthings for you to gawk at? They are people who play this game just the same as you. You are talking about your sister, your mom, your grandma, your aunt, and (possibly?) your friends. Do you even have female friends? Maybe some day, when you grow up, you will realize that "fanservice" is not an acceptable dismissal of pervy, creepy, sexually-juvenile pandering in video game character designs.

I am not saying sexy designs have no place, nor has anyone. If it's provided as an option, I say go nuts. Have at it. But in most games (MMOs most notoriously), female "armor" is typically chainmail bikinis and other embarrassingly objectifying garbage. It is forced upon female characters, to a large extent, and that is not cool. Granted, FFXIV is not really as big a problem, relatively speaking -- but it is far from perfect. Look at the Miqo'te starting gear. Notice any differences, between male and female? Why would the female character be showing so much more skin? Because "fanservice"? Do you really think that is an answer?

What you are saying is that video games should be designed and made for male enjoyment, and if females don't like it they can leave. Personally, I have more respect for both females, and video games, than that. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but perhaps some day you will grow up and learn that both video games and female human beings are not created solely as masturbatory material for your enjoyment.

[Amused]

Do you even realize that females are human beings (half the human population, in fact), and not just sexy playthings for you to gawk at? They are people who play this game just the same as you. You are talking about your sister, your mom, your grandma, your aunt, and (possibly?) your friends. Do you even have female friends? Maybe some day, when you grow up, you will realize that "fanservice" is not an acceptable dismissal of pervy, creepy, sexually-juvenile pandering in video game character designs.

Throwing out insults and making sweeping generalizations about people is not a good way to get your point across. Your entire post just comes off as conceited, as if you think that you're superior because you dislike revealing attire. What about girls that like the revealing armor? Are they pervy, creepy, and sexually-juvenile? Come on, you should know better.

Also, just wanted to add in that this game has way, way more modest armor designs than it does skimpy ones.

[Kuwaitum]

"fanservice" is not an acceptable dismissal of pervy, creepy, sexually-juvenile pandering in video game character designs.

What you are saying is that video games should be designed and made for male enjoyment, and if females don't like it they can leave. Personally, I have more respect for both females, and video games, than that. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but perhaps some day you will grow up and learn that both video games and female human beings are not created solely as masturbatory material for your enjoyment.

I totally agree with you. Some female players (two friends) don't like how some female-version of attires looks on, and its a shame to see them being glamoured it to some cloth-based.

Also, what's with the designs.. either skimpy or baggy? and most repitative with a pinch of color change.

Not mentioning my hate to see male characters walking around in Gowns (Scylla's Robe), the cheapest and esiest design. At least make the male's verson a real robe, or any other healing shirt with same pattern.

[Ashkendor]

I totally agree with you. Some female players (two friends) don't like how some female-version of attires looks on, and its a shame to see them being glamoured it to some cloth-based.

I'm in total agreement here. I honestly really dislike the fact that the Patrician's set looks like a snazzy suit on a dude and a hooker's working clothes on a girl. seriously. There's nothing like running around Urth's Gift slapping water sprites around or sitting in my FC house crafting with my character's panties showing and her boobs hanging out for everyone to see. My issue isn't with skimpy clothes in general (I use the guardian corps skirt in my BLM glamour and the cashmere skirt of aiming on my bard) but with the fact that I don't have a choice in the matter. I don't want to look like that when I'm sitting around crafting. Not to mention, when I fantasia'd to a female character, I'd totally forgotten about the 'stab me here' belly window in the DRG artifact gear too. Now I kinda want to glamour something completely different, which is saying something because I went to the trouble and cost of making an augmented set when the character was male. :|

[Riepah]

I don't have a choice in the matter. I don't want to look like that when I'm sitting around crafting.

Now I kinda want to glamour something completely different

What is it now, do you have no choice or is there a glamour system that allows you to wear something you like better?

[Remilia_Nightfall]

stuff

Oh my. Here we are again.

Yes, I do realize that females are human beings (or catgirls, in this case), and yes I do have female friends and also a girlfriend, for that matter (luckily her mindset is similar to mine in many regards, that's why she's my girlfriend). I am grown up enough as I am 29, and I understand and accept how things in this world work.

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol", and if you are familiar with Japanese culture you should very well know what this implies. So yes, I believe "fanservice" is the answer, because the Idol phenomenon is all about fanservice. Literally, EVERYTHING is about "serving the fans".

And no, I am not saying that games should be designed for male enjoyment. As said, I have a gf who plays this game with me and I know lots of female players who are perfectly happy. But I personally like cute girls, and eye candy is welcome as long as gameplay is not cast aside - and in this case, it is not.

So please throw your feminism at someone else, as I am quite immune :P

[Aegis]

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol"

Try again. They are based on Mithra in XI which were not in any way fanservicey. No upskirts, no ridiculous cleavage. I think the most fanservicey thing they could wear was a subligar. Byakko's Haidate was shorts iirc rather than the baggier pants like it was on other races, but that was about it.

If you don't think changing gear design to expose more when transferred to a female character is anything other than objectification, I'd be interested to know why. You may be cool with the objectification, your gf may be cool with it. That's fine. But it's objectification nonetheless.

please throw your feminism at someone else, as I am quite immune :P

Are you sure that's a good thing?