Is the Ninja nerf really needed?

[juniglee]

Just my two cents but I always thought having to memorize and use ninjutsu properly was enough to balance ninjas high damage.

My Ninja is only level 43 but I don't think it's really hard to memorize them. If anything, the easy way to memorize Ninjutsus is based on whether it's a 2 or 3-string combo, and which one you end with, without any repetition. Since I unlocked the 2 strings, I have never used Fuma Shuriken so I won't take that into consideration. The only thing that makes it "hard" if any, is the Mudra lag (which they addressed as something that cannot be looked at at the moment).

I want them to nerf its aggro generation, I don't care if DPS is nerfed.

Ninjas do not have any additional enmity generation on their skill, so to nerf their enmity generation is to nerf their DPS.

Like me and many other people said already Ninja isn't even top dps in the current version the top dps still goes to monk. People will go back to stacking 2 monks for their melee slots if ninja is nerfed so much.

I do not play Monk, nor do I really do or know anything about Final Coil, but I don't believe Dragon Kick debuff stacks. It really doesn't make sense to stack Monks because Ninja can still provide Vulnerability Up via Trick Attack, and still has utility over double stacking Monks (ie. Goad, Ninjutsus). Their DPS won't be nerfed out of the water, but will probably be just toned down a little. It won't really bring about the end of the job.

[Alistaire]

It's not just about the dragon kick debuff; mnk's pure dps output still wins. As far as how much of a nerf happens and whether NIN will contribute enough via Trick Attack and other means to still justify a slot, we'll have to see. Honestly, the only nerf that was needed was how easy they have it on TP usage.

[Atreides]

I do not play Monk, nor do I really do or know anything about Final Coil, but I don't believe Dragon Kick debuff stacks. It really doesn't make sense to stack Monks because Ninja can still provide Vulnerability Up via Trick Attack, and still has utility over double stacking Monks (ie. Goad, Ninjutsus). Their DPS won't be nerfed out of the water, but will probably be just toned down a little. It won't really bring about the end of the job.

The reason you take a second monk is so that one can go bonkers with his DPS since the other Monk will Dragon Kick and he can bootshine instead.
With Monk being the best ST DPS it's actually a huge thing and already worked in the old coils.

[juniglee]

The reason you take a second monk is so that one can go bonkers with his DPS since the other Monk will Dragon Kick and he can bootshine instead.
With Monk being the best ST DPS it's actually a huge thing and already worked in the old coils.

I guess at this point the only thing going for Ninjas is the utility of Trick Attack, Goad, and really just how much lower their DPS is. I really do not think it's going to be so low that nobody will use the class in FCoB, nor totally invalidate them as a DPS class, as this thread is making it sound to be.

[dday3six]

It's not just about the dragon kick debuff; mnk's pure dps output still wins. As far as how much of a nerf happens and whether NIN will contribute enough via Trick Attack and other means to still justify a slot, we'll have to see. Honestly, the only nerf that was needed was how easy they have it on TP usage.

Potential TP cost increases concern me. If it's more than one skill going from 50 to 60, it will make Goad less useful in raid settings since Ninja cannot use it on themselves. The main attraction of Goad was it staves off the need for Paeon, thanks in part to Ninja's TP efficiency, if they lose that too much, Goad is less useful as a result.

I guess at this point the only thing going for Ninjas is the utility of Trick Attack, Goad, and really just how much lower their DPS is. I really do not think it's going to be so low that nobody will use the class in FCoB, nor totally invalidate them as a DPS class, as this thread is making it sound to be.

Goad effectiveness is tied to Ninja'a TP efficiency, which SE has said they are going to change. If the Bard is going to have to sing Paeon more quickly anyway, and Monk has higher DPS and they are better in pairs. That leans heavily toward just bringing two Monks are your Melee DPS.

[Giantbane]

Ninja isn't top dps as it is, the hell are you talking about? If your ninja is parsing higher than your monk, you need a new monk.

Remember, all extra damage provided to the raid by trick attack belongs to the ninja, but doesn't show up on the parser.

[Parodine]

Like me and many other people said already Ninja isn't even top dps in the current version the top dps still goes to monk. People will go back to stacking 2 monks for their melee slots if ninja is nerfed so much.

(Pauvre Dragoons not even considered after update already, oh lawd)

[dday3six]

(Pauvre Dragoons not even considered after update already, oh lawd)

What worries me the most is that Ninja will be nerfed too much. Dragoon's will get a DPS boost, but not the utility they needed to really give them a place at the table, and raids will go back to using 2 Monks.

I was really hoping Dragoon would just be brought in line to Monk and Ninja in terms of DPS with added utility so the Melee DPS raid choice would be a question of which utility is the most useful to your group.

[Parodine]

What worries me the most is that Ninja will be nerfed too much. Dragoon's will get a DPS boost, but not the utility they needed to really give them a place at the table, and raids will go back to using 2 Monks.

I was really hoping Dragoon would just be brought in line to Monk and Ninja in terms of DPS with added utility so the Melee DPS raid choice would be a question of which utility is the most useful to your group.

I agree. I think in terms of implementation, I'd rather not see nerfs for most jobs. Before NIN came around, they didn't want to nerf MNK for the sake of DRG. Harkens back to the FFXI days a bit. Makes me a wee bit nervous, but we'll see.

Still, we'll see when the update comes I guess. I think the raid utility NIN brings with TA will be too juicy to pass up in most cases. They're often not credited for the DPS they add to the group during the time that is active which is technically partially theirs.

[Zumi]

(Pauvre Dragoons not even considered after update already, oh lawd)

The dragoon changes won't likely earn them a final coil spot from someone who is recruiting unless you have someone who only plays drg and its their only job their groups will still use them. They are giving them survival with more mdef, and easing up on positionals so only damage is effected you still get the buffs and debuffs if you miss them. However now high skilled drgs don't miss positionals now what the buff does is helps out less skilled players close the gap between high skilled players so in the end high skilled players really just getting survivability increase so like they won't have to stack a bunch of vit melds for T13.