Is the Ninja nerf really needed?

[TheMax1087]

15-20 seconds of losing GL once or twice in a fight only puts them at less then 3 skills behind in terms of GCD (excluding the damage buff that GL3 gives)... When MNK's damage is already far superior to any melee currently, the effect is pretty small

I main monk and actually agree with you that it's easier to play than the other two melee(after your opener, ever gcd entails using one of three possible moves). But you are so far off the mark with your comments on greased lightning that it borders on absurd. Every endgame fight added since 2.2(with the exception of t6, shiva ex, and t8, I haven't tried t12 or 13) has at least one mechanic where a monk can be forced to lose their greased lightning stacks when perfect balance wouldn't be up, putting them 9 skills(I have no clue where you got 3 from) behind both other melee, as monks attacks have the lowest potency on their skills of the three, and greased lightning buffs both their damage and attack speed. The 27% damage and 15% attack speed is the sole reason their damage is higher, and as few as 3 losses of that will put them behind a ninja in damage.

[Altena]

snip

GCD gets reduced by roughly .5 seconds with GL - meaning if you didn't lose it, you would be roughly 3 skills better off. Takes 9 without PB to get 3 stacks - meaning an increased GCD of .5 seconds per skill = roughly 4.5 more seconds worth of GCD if you maintained it - meaning 2-3 skills. (This of course isn't taking into consideration the damage buff you also gain, nor does it take into consideration the reduced GCD during the 2nd & 3rd combo while building stacks, however I did state this and it's due to simplicity/my poor math skills).

You are not 9 skills worse off if you lose GL - as you are still hitting those 9 skills, just at a .5 second increased rate to 3 stacks of GL.

That is what I meant by my statement.

T10 doesn't force you off the mob unless you get charged - which isn't a forced mechanic that's "always on the MNK". It's purely RNG. You will lose about as much damage as any other melee would.
T11 is more or less a dummy fight for the most part.
T12 is a dummy fight with adds (provided you have a BRD that is handling a lot of the mechanics).
I haven't touched T13 though so I can't truthfully comment on that one - however considering world firsts (and many other groups) run MNK/MNK for it, I daresay there are reasons for that.

If you simply get unlucky and get "every single charge" in T10 - or at least a tonne of them, then sure it will hurt your damage, but this is the same for any DPS.
I won't deny that MNK does have its weakness in that regard - and that's in places where they consistently lose GL3. However if it only happens a few times in a 10 min fight, it is still pushing huge numbers generally.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Nope. Don't go putting words in my mouth.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...y-needed/page2

[dday3six]

*snip*

You're making positional attacks out to be more then they are. A player just needs to set one step over the line separating rear and flank, then step back and forth as needed. Many players move way more than they need to, losing DPS in the process, when all that needs to be done is press the skill and move during that skill's animation as needed.

[Felis]

You're making positional attacks out to be more then they are. A player just needs to set one step over the line separating rear and flank, then step back and forth as needed. Many players move way more than they need to, losing DPS in the process, when all that needs to be done is press the skill and move during that skill's animation as needed.

So long you don't have a tank who rotate the boss around every 3 seconds

[dday3six]

So long you don't have a tank who rotate the boss around every 3 seconds

Let's assume it's a raid setting and everyone knows their job, else we would need to account for all 31 flavors of stupid behavior.

[DragonSlayer45]

These nerfs had better not go beyond a TP increase to Aeolian Edge, Shadow Fang, etc. Ninja DPS is absolutely fine. Honestly, this constant back and forth of nerfing and buffing every job from Square Enix is getting a tad annoying at this point.

[Fynlar]

Are you kidding? MNK's need for positionals are definitely not as punishing as you make them out to be. In addition to this, there are very very few fights where this is a thing. The only one that comes to mind is T9 during the final phase - and that is purely due to a strategic choice. Even then, there are only certain times where the MNK does have to stack with the party during this phase (and that is Fire in, and potentially the Thunder that is paired with a Lunar). Every other time DPS can be wherever they want.

Almost every mob that isn't a trash mob will regularly spin around to do special attacks on non-tank targets and cause positionals to fail. The whole "very very few fights" thing is total baloney and you know it.

MNK to play "fairly well" is much much much more braindead and easy then NIN is.

If that were true, it would show in my numbers, considering NIN is a job that's far newer and I have considerably less experience playing it. It does not.

[Altena]

Almost every mob that isn't a trash mob will regularly spin around to do special attacks on non-tank targets and cause positionals to fail. The whole "very very few fights" thing is total baloney and you know it.

Lol wot? I am beginning to believe that you don't even play melee.

If that were true, it would show in my numbers, considering NIN is a job that's far newer and I have considerably less experience playing it. It does not.

I am quite intrigued after reading some of your posts.

[Shurrikhan]

Dropping the poison buff from 20% bonus damage to 18% would seem to be (more than) plenty. Monks can still outparse them as is (which I personally think should just barely be the case with each job playing at 90-100% <skill>), and DRGs will hopefully soon be buffed to near enough that level. If their TP costs are increased as planned, that's just going to burn holes in Bard's mana pockets. Without the ability to Goad themselves, fighting at MNK speed w/o MNK TP costs is just going to cause another, and likely more significant, DRG mDef-style issue.

On the discussion of skill floors and ceilings, I have to agree that they shouldn't be a complete justification for any job's superiority, but at the same time I'd like to generally see each class having about equal(ly high) skill ceiling in different styles rather than any one class honestly being classifiable as easier or harder than others.

As far as those DRG buffs go, I'd rather not see the CDs or generally form touched (I do find the 80s CDs to have their place alongside the 40 and 60s ones and have no desire to attempt to 'normalize' or simplify that CD arsenal), but would love to see something more than just having Heavy Thrust's bonus buffed. I'd like to see the class made more opportunistic, if possible, without losing the rotational mindset it already has (just, perhaps something equally intuitive but a bit complex and/or more able and reasonable to take risks in) and perhaps furthering on the 'melee burst king' aspect, which it now shares with Ninja for better or worse.