Tanking habits

[Teryaani]

But I do agree that before mass pulling tank should make sure that the party (esp. the healer) are ready for it. Though really, all roulettes are so easy that even by just looking at gear he can decide for himself, but just for the sake of being polite...

Pretty much this. Ask first. Your healer could be having a crap day and not feel up to it.

I'm trying to (slowly) learn the art of tank-fu, first with warrior (STEEEEEEEL CYYYYYCLONE!) and now with paladin. Coming from BLM which only really has two cool downs to think about (Quelling strikes and Raging strikes), it's a bit of a learning curve and even though I know my healer, I won't pull more than two packs of mobs. Not because I think she can't handle it, but because I know I can't.

[Janhyua]

Just did a ran on snowcloak this afternoon guess what happen? Myself a warrior i110 2 other dps from duty finder i110 with i115 weapon a ninja and a blm, so our scholar from duty finder as well at i108 or so.... So I go ahead and did a pull.... First 3 groups of mobs I barely survive I guess healer was warming up so when ahead to pull the next group of 5 wolfs.... My hp dropped to 10% used Holgan but still die after 6 sec of 1% hp.... So from there on wards we did small pulls till the first boss, after that I know the healer strength so I did small pulls then he next thing I know the dps starts to pulls the rest of the shit I am whatever healer got aggro I had no choice so I overpower everything I survive but barely.

The next group just before the second boss there are 2 ice element and those 2 bird thingy and a giant thingy I know the dps going to aggro them all so I when head and lure them all but die there anyway but they barely survive manage to clear the pack.

[Rinion]

but about boring I have to say. it's boring for a lot of dps classes to just spam 3 buttons over and over again. it's boring for the tank to spam one button over and over again the only person this mass pull nonsense is fun for is the healer

I main a Scholar and trust me, it's not fun, it's quite stressful. Because of all of this mass pulling (and sometimes wiping because of it) I check the tanks gear so that I can see whether they're likely to try mass pulling and how hard keeping them alive would be if they did. I dread the last room of Sastash HM especially =S Thankfully though, most of these mass pulling tanks do actually slow down quite a bit after one wipe (and one apology on my part) and they tend to only pull one group of mobs at a time for the rest of the dungeon. I'll give them that much =)

[Drako]

Ya Rinion that's true. If I try pulling a couple groups and i die, I usually just stop unless the healer insists they want to try again. Some healers are inexperienced and sometimes want to try it a couple times. That last room in Sastasha HM lol, I haven't yet tried to pull the whole thing. I figured I'd wait a couple more weeks before I attempt it, unless I'm with my FC with 2x blm or blm/brd. So far I think sense the new update I've had one blm on experts, and he was doing Fire III > Fire III > Fire III etc etc. So ya that wasn't gonna happen. People here saying the tank needs to ask the group from the get go, that's not a bad idea. I use to ask, but ended up just doing a gear/job check, mainly because no one ever wanted to go slow. But there's nothing stopping the healers from saying something from the get go either. Everyone has the capacity to speak, not any one person is required to do/say anything. This is a old argument that has come up many times. The unfortunate thing is, one person may complain about SRing, while another will complain your not SRing. All tanks have experienced both situations. You try to do the right thing and ask, and people sometimes are like um pull all, while others get a sting and are like WTF are you doing dumb tank. I guess it all comes down to communication, if there was a 5 second dialogue everyone would be happy. Well.. I say that but, not really. It would be better classified as a compromise.

[Alukah]

Just got a run in progress for Snowcloak, when I entered the map healer and tank were arguing, apparently the other DPS left due to it, tank also left shortly after the argument. I asked healer and bard what happened and tank (i110) pulled the whole room up to the door, healer couldn't keep him up even with divine seal + presence of mind and he spent ten minutes complaining and blaming the healer.

Tank was near i110, healer was i90 with zenith weapon.

Seriously people, if you see a low geared healer or DPS do not pull big, and more importantly do not blame them if you die if you're the one pulling more than the group can handle, don't be an ass.

[Ophie-Mio]

You're contradicting yourself by saying first "forcing me to play a specific way" is "silly" and then saying dungeons are "supposed to be" run a specific way. I don't like your way, you don't like my preferred method. /shrugs. If you go into the DF, expect either, don't bitch. Or just go with friends who run dungeons "your way"... I know I do.

(eta: I'm not picking on you, Ophie. ; ; You just happened to mention things in such a way that brought out my need to counter argue for the opposite viewpoint.)

It's totes cool, yo! My saying that the expert dungeons were meant to be run expertly was more a play on its own title. It was argued elsewhere in the forums that the expert dungeons would be nigh impossible if everyone came in on the lowest ilevel that it suggested. That's what I was really saying. Expert dungeons should be done by people who can handle the content and not be carried through. So one player forcing the three other members to do something is not cool in my opinion.

I remember that there was a time when I ran Tam-Tara HM and a bard came in that had a crag bow and barely made ilevel. I understand that he felt he could come in with that but it literally forced me as the whm to make up his dps or else wipe in the last boss over and over again.

I'm someone who definitely supports speed runs if the group wants it or slow runs when the group doesn't. The only thing I don't support is someone coming in with a low ilevel and kinda expecting to be carried.

When I go into the DF roulette, I expect either and I do either and I never complain about them. I complain about the artificial blocking of a dungeon to slow down the people who want to speedrun. I also complain about the assholes who yell at people who can't keep up.

[LaylaTsarra]

I get to giggle when a tank pulls the entire dungeon and then dies.

[Mercuito]

I'm someone who definitely supports speed runs if the group wants it or slow runs when the group doesn't. The only thing I don't support is someone coming in with a low ilevel and kinda expecting to be carried.

When I go into the DF roulette, I expect either and I do either and I never complain about them. I complain about the artificial blocking of a dungeon to slow down the people who want to speedrun. I also complain about the assholes who yell at people who can't keep up.

But the dungeon isn't designed to a sped through. How many times does SE need to make this clear. First in launch where you asked the tank to die at the first boss. now with blocking. When will you players get the point developers don't design dungeon to be sped through. and certainly didn't design dungeon for tanks to pull everything and then kill everything at once. . In any case SE please learn from this mistake in heaven's ward

[Ophie-Mio]

But the dungeon isn't designed to a sped through. How many times does SE need to make this clear. First in launch where you asked the tank to die at the first boss. now with blocking. When will you players get the point developers don't design dungeon to be sped through. and certainly didn't design dungeon for tanks to pull everything and then kill everything at once. . In any case SE please learn from this mistake in heaven's ward

A dungeon is designed to be played however I deem it to be played. If my gear dictates I can speed run it, my group (literally the same three raid people I always do dungeons with) is gonna speed run it. If we can't speed run it, we're gonna go slow. You even quoted my text that literally says that I don't care which we do. If I'm not with my group, I will run it however the tank wants it to be run.

Don't make me your poster child for being a speed running asshole when I am the furthest thing from that. I have never told a tank to pull more nor have I pressured any tank to do so. As a healer, I say my hello and say "Any pulls are fine." and then do my job.

SE can determine how I do certain mechanics in a fight but forcing me to kill two mobs just to open a door and then do it again on a dumb tomestone dungeon doesn't qualify. Trash pulls in dungeons should be determined by the players how to deal with. Not artificially inflating them by adding in blocks there and there and there just to increase the amount of time you're inside it. This is NOT actual content nor will it ever be.

Literally you have chosen the wrong person to quote and argue with as my quoted text is openly calling assholes who do speedruns against the consent of the group assholes and also is willing to speed run if the tank chooses.
So seriously, Mercuito, go away.

[DoctorPepper]

I have to agree with others in this thread who say ninja aoe is pretty good. If you have 4+ mobs to hit then the total potency of death blossom will be 400+ split between the monsters which is higher potency than all ninja abilities except for trick attack/sneak attack. Add a pre-emptive huton and start the fight with doton and kassatsu katon and you're going to be doing pretty decent aoe dps.

Not to mention the example the OP used was 2x nin which means they have the ability to goad each other as well as the added tp from invigorate. All the monsters should be dead well before you run out of TP. I've played ninja on several speed runs and have yet to run out of TP before the pack dies. If I have a DRG or MNK in the group all I have to do is toss them a goad at the start of the fight and they can spam aoe moves too so I don't see the problem.

If you want to run a dungeon at a slower pace why don't you try simply saying "Can we please pull no more than x mobs at a time?" and see where that gets you. You'll probably still meet some jerks but I find people can be quite accommodating if you're polite about your requests.

At the end of the day, people are going to play how they want to play. Just because you think that the dungeons are not designed to be speed runs doesn't mean people have to stop doing them. That is simply your opinion, if SE wants dungeons to be slower they will add mechanics that make them slower.

Dungeons get very repetitive, especially when you've completed them hundreds of times, can you really blame people for wanting to get through them a little faster? There aren't exactly a massive variety of other types of content that they can do to avoid farming dungeons for tomes.