Tanking habits

[OlyverW]

This worked well for me when I upgraded to PS4 and got new controller mapping options- I set R3 thumbstick to Assist Target, and I don't need to use it a ton, but it's great when you want to be sure to target the same one as your tank or a specific other party member. I only use very situationally since it often doesn't make sense to attack the same target as the tank of a specific DPS. Great for when you don't want to pull enmity on one target out of a ton (ST trash mobs) or doing new content or coordinating with more experienced players (like if a BRD pairs up with DRG on an add that's best dealt physical damage).

Honestly, I'd say it's probably better to look for what the other DPS is targeting, and attack that. If you're not using aoes, it's best to kill a target as fast as possible, and the best way to do that is to focus on the same target as the other DPS. Additionally, by focusing on the same target as the other DPS, you increase the chances that that monster will die before either DPS gets enough hate to overcome the tank's distributed enmity.

A tank, on the other hand, is going to be rapidly switching targets for pretty much the entire fight in order to spread their enmity-building single target attacks across as many mobs as possible. If you target what the tank targets, you will be switching targets the entire fight as well.

When burning down targets one at a time (rather than aoe on all the targets), it's more efficient and safer to target the same mob the other DPS does. (Also remain aware that the other DPS might apply DoTs to several mobs before settling on one - as ACN 50, I'm sure you do this yourself, but other classes with DoTs may do this as well!)

What I do is my opening rotation (lay my dots and my aoe attack for groups) than attack what was being currently targeted while maintaining my dots.

Never thought of it that way my thinking was I didn’t want to steal aggro but attacking what other dps is attack makes sense for distributing the aggro. I will give that a shot next time I get on thnx for the advise

[LineageRazor]

And that is my general practice look for what the tank is attacking than attack that when there are no markers

I know on the PS3/PS4 you can hold R2 than press L1 or R1 to cycle in which direction you want

Honestly, I'd say it's probably better to look for what the other DPS is targeting, and attack that. If you're not using aoes, it's best to kill a target as fast as possible, and the best way to do that is to focus on the same target as the other DPS. Additionally, by focusing on the same target as the other DPS, you increase the chances that that monster will die before either DPS gets enough hate to overcome the tank's distributed enmity.

A tank, on the other hand, is going to be rapidly switching targets for pretty much the entire fight in order to spread their enmity-building single target attacks across as many mobs as possible. If you target what the tank targets, you will be switching targets the entire fight as well.

When burning down targets one at a time (rather than aoe on all the targets), it's more efficient and safer to target the same mob the other DPS does. (Also remain aware that the other DPS might apply DoTs to several mobs before settling on one - as ACN 50, I'm sure you do this yourself, but other classes with DoTs may do this as well!)

[Saseal]

Additionally, by focusing on the same target as the other DPS, you increase the chances that that monster will die before either DPS gets enough hate to overcome the tank's distributed enmity.

You know, thats a good point I never thought about o_O I just always attacked what the tank is attacking for the same enmity reasoning - but I guess that would be killing two birds with one stone (tank holding aggro on their target and the dpses distributing enmity on the other)

[HakuroDK]

As a tank myself, all of this tank hate kinda hurts. I do my honest best to make sure the party goes at a suitable pace, but everyone's idea of a suitable pace is different. Some folks prefer to go at a slower pace and others prefer to go much faster. I have been yelled at by DPS and healers alike for NOT mass-pulling. I have been yelled at by a holy-spamming WHM for not having good survivability. I've been yelled at by enough people for trying to adopt to a playstyle that is not theirs that I've had just about enough of the tank hate.

Do you know? If you roll a tank, your DF times will be cut down 10-fold? If you roll a tank, YOU can control how fast the party goes? It's downright insulting and hypocritical to crap all over tanks when those crapping over tanks aren't even willing to play that role.

You want to know my habits? If I see two DPS jobs that specialize in single-target damage (MNK, DRG, SMN, etc.), I think to myself "There is no way AoEs are happening here" and I slow the party down. If I see two DPS jobs that specialize in multi-target damage (BLM, BRD, etc.), I think to myself "They should be able to handle it" and I test the waters with a single pull first. If they can handle it, I double-pull. If they can handle it, I continue to go at that pace. If they can't, I scale back.

I don't mark targets for two reasons. First and foremost, a DPS should be focusing fire on the add with the lowest HP. If that isn't clear, attack what the tank is attacking. Second, any tank worth their salt can manage enmity on several adds at once. I don't have time to be marking adds when I get saddled with trigger-happy DPS who are more than happy to pull before I'm ready, which makes my job five times more difficult than it already is because I have to then yank enmity from that DPS, yank enmity from every other add attacking other players besides myself due to proximity, pull enmity off a running healer because they hit Medica II after the pull but before I got enmity generated properly... seriously. When I tank in some parties, I feel like a babysitter.

If I see a healer having a difficult time healing me for ANY reason, I don't give that healer gruff. Instead, I pop damage reduction cooldown abilities that I would normally save for a boss and play defensively.

Whenever I enter a dungeon, I am always polite, greeting the rest of the party and corroborating with any fellow tanks over who should be main tank and who should be off-tank. After that, if necessary, we talk strategy before the pull to ensure everyone is on the same page.

Whenever a dungeon ends, I give a commendation to whomever did the best job in the dungeon, congratulate everyone in the party for a good run, wait for the loot rolls to end, use the /goodbye emote, and leave. If there were any particularly amazing players, I may even friend them.

I get that you're talking about tanks that are not me, but to be perfectly frank, you're generalizing every tank with your frustrations and criticisms while you yourself are not a tank. And that is incredibly rude.

[Saseal]

As a tank myself, all of this tank hate kinda hurts. I do my honest best to make sure the party goes at a suitable pace, but everyone's idea of a suitable pace is different. Some folks prefer to go at a slower pace and others prefer to go much faster. I have been yelled at by DPS and healers alike for NOT mass-pulling. I have been yelled at by a holy-spamming WHM for not having good survivability. I've been yelled at by enough people for trying to adopt to a playstyle that is not theirs that I've had just about enough of the tank hate.

(rest is snipped)

*Deeep breath for long winded response that probably derailed somewhere in the middle of typing and editing (don't say I didn't warn)*

In a sense, I agree, as a healer - we have the same constant hate.

You're going to have to take all of it with a grain of salt, unfortunately (everyone's probably tired of hearing that, though). Tanks and Healers are in similar positions.
I feel similarly when someone complains about healers - even more when WHMs are singled out (such as the "Abomination known as WTFWHM" thread in the healer forum. ...because Scholars don't do anything weird...?). Both healers and tanks get similar guff from all angles (from DPS, co-tank/co-healer, tank/healer) because of the massive responsibilities both hold. Clump that with immature/impatient players and behold! Commence the finger pointing! *Blows hunters horn and unleashes the hounds*
So, technically, everyone is rude to everyone.

If you do as you say you do (I'm not doubting, just adding context), then I don't see any problems. I'd give you a commendation, easy.
I do similarly - say hello, stay friendly if the group is friendly, apologize if I derp (whming or dpsing), thank for raises, commend the person who stood out most of the group (or if I liked everyone with inability to decide, I kind of eenie-meenie and hope all the commends didn't just go to the same one person for sake of fairness), thank for the party and wait till it seems everyone is ready to exit (rather than just speeding to the exit and leaving. Just feels rude when people do it).

I do the best to my ability and still get "we wiped because of shitty heals; the healers can't keep us alive; etc" and the like guff for what ever the situation is or was - while I may not be the best healer out there, I know for a fact that I do as much as possible at all times (....which I will admit always leads me to MP management issues, but we all have our pitfalls. Overzealous/overly focused supporting is mine). Prioritize heals/lifebars, keep tank/co-healer healed, stay out of AoEs, Raise ASAP and only if mp allows for it and can continued healing afterwards, don't grab aggro at the start of a pull, DPS on healing down time, 'needs of the many', there is a time to stop and run and a time to weather a hit to ensure a priority heal to someone, pop cooldowns when damage outweighs the heals, SoS for MP and enmity redux, run to the tank when you have shit munching on you, etcetcetc.

No matter what is done, it's never enough.
Tanking and healing is tough - from both skill use mechanics and from the player base. There are a lot of high expectations from both classes.

I don't give players any crap (I'll admit to thinking "wtf are you doing? x_X /fliptable" here and there) but unless the person is verbally rude first, I don't see the need to be mean to them. Maybe they didn't know a mechanic of a skill or didn't realize something (missing shield oath, etc) or hit the wrong button or just a situational issue /shrug. People are allowed to derp. Shit happens - adapt, learn something new from it and get over it, is my take. Sastasha HM's last room giant pull massacres taught me to pop Divine and/or Presence sooner than my usual habit when I realize my jaw is dropping (not secluded to just Sastasha HM. But this is kind of a weak example). Annoyed by the method of learning, but still learned from it.

There's no such thing as perfection, for any class/person, so the expectation for it is unwarranted. There are those that truly just do not give a damn and ignore all useful concepts and advice, but those are individuals - just as much as the great counterparts are. And just like everything else, the derpy fellas are the ones that stand out more.



Sorta off topic: There are "I derped" and "horror story" threads (yeah, I've added my own bad experiences, because venting is healthy, but...) - I think maybe there needs to be some "Share your 'Awesome party was awesome' stories" threads to counteract all the negatives - inject a bit of positivity for all the classes straight from the players mouths. Promote solidarity cross-class, and not just each class segregating to talk amongst themselves about the other classes.
Just a suggestion.

[HakuroDK]

snip

A kindred spirit, wonderful!

There are a lot of people who are more keen to vent about all of the negative stuff they see than they are to talk about anything positive. And it's terrible! (as I do exactly that. x_x)

I do agree we need more positive threads about. Between the Cash Shop threads, criticism threads like this one, the "Women and Armor" thread, and a bunch of the other threads that get toxic really quick, we do absolutely need more positivity about.

[Aegis]

On literally every job except MNK I prefer the tank to pull as large a group as the healer can sustain (they don't have to heal for long, usually).

On small pulls, a healer can more or less fall asleep, the tank is never in any real danger. Both the tank and healer are underperforming in relation to their potential.

On DD jobs, on any pull of more than 4 mobs, it is faster to AOE them down (I think the number is something like 5 for MNKs, correct me if I'm wrong).

Obviously this is only something you can do if everyone's i-level is up to it (about 10 over minimum required ilevel for access) and you don't have 2 MNKs in party. BRD, DRG, NIN, BLM, SMN (to an extent), WHM, WAR all perform better on mulyiple targets.

I find it both faster and more fun.

[Bixby]

On DD jobs, on any pull of more than 4 mobs, it is faster to AOE them down (I think the number is something like 5 for MNKs, correct me if I'm wrong).

Rockbreaker (at the end of a normal chain) is better with anything 3+. Spammed with PB, it's better with anything 2+ until PB runs out. It's also better than Snap Punch at 2+, so if you've got 2 adds, Demo 1, Demo 2, RB, repeat is the highest damage finisher rotation. AotD's potency is equivalent to the other openers at 3+, but you miss out on the auto-crit or the DK debuff, so between that and the TP cost, I usually save AotD for 4+ (if they're squishy enough to die relatively quickly) or 5+ (if they're not).

That's just the raw damage perspective, though. I prefer one huge pull even on MNK just because it means less to consider. With multiple pulls, I have to decide how long I'm going to AOE so I don't run dry too soon. One really fast pull, one medium pull, and one slow pull is lame. With one huge pull, I just AOE my fists off, and even when I run dry, it's still faster than it would have been otherwise (partly because, chances are, the other DPS has not run dry).

[Leigaon]

People most of the time pull large groups, usually the party can handle it but on some occasions they can't. Not every tank asks for large pulls, or adjusts to the party settings..a lot just pull everything and think it will go as fast as it did in their last party. This usually causes mass death. Some people say they always ask or always check, but that's not the majority unfortunately.

In all fairness it's not just tanks..for every bad tank habit I could think up a healer or dps one. What do you all think it is that's causing some of these issues in general? People taking FATES to 50 and not going through the dungeons to properly learn how to handle things as they go up? Or people who have been 50 way too long and expect perfection from everyone and not considering that others may just be a bit new or not have max gear to destroy everything?

To the OP's final line talking about the whole AoE / Rinse / Repeat..maybe a mid-point would be good. A mini-boss sort of that has a few adds on it. Sort of like in the new dungeons though there's not many. Snake ladies with their orbs and adds / the..golden..thing in Quarn that has the hands that pop? Maybe these are in right directions? Or if I'm missing the point I'm sorry.

[Animarelic]

While everyone is going on about tanks, you also have to remember not everyone is playing a main job on Heals or DPS either. I've had full ilv100-110 Healers that couldn't handle a six pull. I've also had Lv100 -110 DPS that just didn't put out the numbers to kill the mobs in a timely manner so we either killed mobs at the same pace it would have taken just to do two separate pulls or we wiped.

The biggest issue is "Communication" it seems like everyone is hell bent on saying "hi" for commendation purposes and nothing more after that. I've asked people what type of pulls could they handle in ENG and Auto-Translate and was met with NO response or some smart ass comment like "Just go" only to wipe 2 mins later.

As a Main Tank I've learned you can't just judge people by gear either so you have to try to speak to them if they don't respond do a small pull and see how they handle it. If you don't like the attitudes of the players you can always Leave or asked to be removed.