Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Zeviand]

Using the target lock is gimpy, though I understand if your used to using it. There is no difference (in damage) using standard controls and you can actually move the camera angle and you don't have to mess with clicking in and out constantly. You don't sacrifice mobility hardly at all, certainly not anymore than by target-locking. Give it an honest try and I doubt anyone would go back to target locking, I certainly won't.

I absolutely hated training myself to learn how to effectively use the auto lock function, but now that I'm used to it, I've learned to "like" it. I Absolutely hate using standard controls, but only because it's unfamiliar to me. I'll just have to spend some time using it, and maybe I'll grow to like it. I agree that auto lock feels real clunky. I migrated to NIN after countless deaths to flames

[Zeviand]

Dunno why that message posted lol but I transitioned to ninja after countless wipes to 11+ stacks on flames or rebirth. Auto lock and switching to goad someone has to to be the clunkiest thing ever!

[SolarMisae]

Dunno why that message posted lol but I transitioned to ninja after countless wipes to 11+ stacks on flames or rebirth. Auto lock and switching to goad someone has to to be the clunkiest thing ever!

I use a <mo> macro for goad. I just mouseover my goad target in the pt list and hit it and never have to untarget the boss/adds.

[Arg0n]

Hey guys, i'm from the german forum, may my english isn't the best ^^

my main is healer, but i really like to play my dragoon. And i've learned a lot now from the first post, thx for this detailed guide
my question is now, how much determination is 1 strength? is it possible to calculate that or something?
and is det to dex, or det to mind always the same value?

[Ricdeau]

Hey guys, i'm from the german forum, may my english isn't the best ^^

my main is healer, but i really like to play my dragoon. And i've learned a lot now from the first post, thx for this detailed guide
my question is now, how much determination is 1 strength? is it possible to calculate that or something?
and is det to dex, or det to mind always the same value?

Dex means a big load of nothing for dragoon. Anyway, the stat values for up to 2.4 were:

Weapon Damage: 8.732
Strength: 1
Determination: .325
Crit: 0.204
Skill Speed: .178

I do not know if any of those changed at all with the new gear from 2.4 or not. If they did change then it would only be very slight and you can still use that as a base guideline.

[Vodomir]

Dex means a big load of nothing for dragoon. Anyway, the stat values for up to 2.4 were:

Weapon Damage: 8.732
Strength: 1
Determination: .325
Crit: 0.204
Skill Speed: .178

I do not know if any of those changed at all with the new gear from 2.4 or not. If they did change then it would only be very slight and you can still use that as a base guideline.

Aren't those the most recent stat weights for 2.4?

[Ricdeau]

Aren't those the most recent stat weights for 2.4?

Like I said, I wasn't sure if they had changed post 2.4, but any changes would only be slight and you could still easily begin building sets on the pre 2.4 values. I've seen a couple different revisions typically with crit slightly higher than pre 2.4 values, but nothing with any substantial backing to it yet. Please don't think I am saying changes are false...just not much data on it.

[Dervy]

Aren't those the most recent stat weights for 2.4?

EMX still plays? I thought he quit for Wildstar like I did... Such a big mistake. How does one contact him now? Reddit still?

Adding those weights to my updated solver.

And hi guys, I'm back after 6 months (lol)...

I'd be interested in some updated MNK weights. I understand that EMX isn't playing anymore, so would it be possible for him to release his spreadsheets or other resources he uses to get his weights from? That way he wouldn't have to be bothered every other patch. :P

Well, looks like I got my answer.

I have a few of his old spreadsheets still (luckily) and I'll be going over his stuff later to understand his Sim and how it worked. I think I can remember his methodology as well, so that's a plus. I've only just came back so I still need to swallow all of the casual scrub stuff, like finishing off the Second Coil, and going above i100 (crafted gear > all!)

Do any of you feel that there's a minimum threshold of skill speed that should be reached to have a "safe" rotation? I remember a discussion about the drop of Heavy Thrust buff just upon reapplying Heavy Thrust, but I don't remember how that ended.

If I remember correctly, the Rotation created has a minimum threshold of 342 SS for it to actually work properly.

Now, I don't know if we're talking about the same thing here but... As for a maximum, there was a discussion about it I proposed months back, where I calculated once we go above a maximum skillspeed (I think it were 482 + Selene SS Buff, 530+ unbuffed, I check later) our rotation breaks down. It was only a month or two later I found out EMX looked through my work and suggested we switch from H-IDC-P-TTT to H-P-IDC-TTT once we break that threshold. My alternative solution was switching to the old school H-IDC-P-F-TTT.

I think he meant that "since the gap between Det and Crit is smaller than before", and "we find more amounts of Crit on gear rather than Det anyway", it would not really be an issue if "dragoons swapped a couple of pieces to increase Crit rather than just focus on smaller amounts of Det". He did not state that Crit > Det, if I read that correctly. Also, good job for contacting EMX - I was actually wondering if there was any chance of him checking the values post-patch.

Precisely. It's not the weighting itself that could makes Crit > Det, but the item budgets on the i120-i130 gear that causes this. For X Determination, you'd get Y Crit on a particular gear slot (Which is usually more as it's a tertiary skill). When you multiply the weights with the actual stats you'd get on your gear, Crit gives you an overall higher gear weighting, if that makes sense. Point for point, DET will always be better than Crit however.

[siverstorm]

Hey guys, i'm from the german forum, may my english isn't the best ^^

my main is healer, but i really like to play my dragoon. And i've learned a lot now from the first post, thx for this detailed guide
my question is now, how much determination is 1 strength? is it possible to calculate that or something?
and is det to dex, or det to mind always the same value?

Weapon Damage: 8.732
Strength: 1
Determination: .325
Crit: 0.204
Skill Speed: .178

1/0.325 = 3.077 det
So one STR is roughly 3 DET.

The stat weights vary per job, on bard DET is worth something like 0.318 DEX, whm/sch DET is the same as drg at 0.325, for Monk det is 0.332. The assumed weight for ninja is currently the same as monk but I think it's unconfirmed, not sure.

[Arg0n]

Many thanks for your fast reply