DF withdrawl has become the new "Fatigue" system

[Fyrebrand]

I'm not convinced that the DF lockout is working. In theory, it is meant to lessen wait time in DF queues. But in practice, I'm not sure it actually is doing that. Queues are as long as they have ever been, and people are failing to click Commence when it pops just as much as before. It just seems to be punishing innocent people for making easy mistakes, stepping away from the game for a minute to go to the bathroom, or partying with someone who failed to click in time. Like, if I queue for a dungeon with an FC buddy, and 30 minutes later he is AFK at that exact moment and fails to click Commence, I get penalized for it. No matter how you look at it, that is pretty ridiculous.

A couple of DPS who miss their queue have already waited 30-60 minutes for their dungeon. And if they even want to re-queue, they will have to wait just as long again. That is punishment enough. But if a tank and healer queue up, and one of them isn't ready or has to take care of something, now you're preventing much-needed roles from re-queuing if they get enough strikes. DF is worse off without them, even if they do fail to catch their queues a few times.

People who fail to click Commence are not why DF queues are so long. It is, and has always been, because parties require a balance of roles, but certain roles are far less played than others. Perhaps the greatest contributor to the problem was SE's boneheaded decision to make Light Parties with only 2 DPS. But rather than do the hard work it would take to address the real issue, we have a penalty system that points fingers at a scapegoat, and blames the players for problems in the game's foundations. I wouldn't call it "the new Fatigue system," but I would certainly call it a system that needlessly punishes players for having real lives and not really doing anything wrong.

[AdamFyi]

I would certainly call it a system that needlessly punishes players for having real lives and not really doing anything wrong.

You are given 3 strikes every day before the game starts penalizing you. If you know that you are going to be away from the game for more than ten minutes (lesser for tanks and healers), then you shouldn't be queuing for a duty in the first place. If you were called off for something that takes a reasonable amount of time to do, open the DF window and remove yourself from the queue. It saves you a strike, and it saves you from accidental events like being away when a queue pops. This also applies to your buddies that go AFK without any warning. They should be alerting you if they have to go do something, in which point you can either take yourself off the queue, or accept the fact that there is a chance that the queue may pop up while he was away.

[polyphonica]

I'm not convinced that the DF lockout is working. In theory, it is meant to lessen wait time in DF queues. But in practice, I'm not sure it actually is doing that. Queues are as long as they have ever been, and people are failing to click Commence when it pops just as much as before.

I don't think it's only to lessen wait times, but also to reduce annoyance. Of course anecdotal evidence is what it is, but I will say that I personally noted a significant reduction in the amount of queue failures as a result of the change. Certainly, for the 24-player raids, the amount of subsequent/repeated failures has dropped. But either way, I should think that SE should have data to support or deny this claim. (It also makes the people waiting in the queue and constantly clicking commence at least feel that something is being done about the people who withdraw and cause them the annoyance and delay.)

I think the length of queue times at this time is more likely impacted by the influx of new DPS characters. We can only theorize if it would have been even worse if not for this change.

I also don't think that, generally speaking, the individual player is very likely to run into this problem. Where the odds do get a little higher is in parties, and that's discussed in the other thread.

The only people affected by it are just those who have been in a queue for 30-60+ minutes and failed to click a button within a one-minute window

...who have done this three times in a given 24-hour period. And their punishment is only that they have to wait 30 minutes before queueing again, to hopefully remind them that they should really be ready this time.

Again, this is aside the party issue, which is a bit more complicated.

[Fyrebrand]

And their punishment is only that they have to wait 30 minutes before queueing again, to hopefully remind them that they should really be ready this time.

Wait, what? The penalty is only 30 minutes? I thought if they got 3 strikes, they were basically banned from DF for 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, that is not nearly as harsh as I thought it was. But on the other hand, it just highlights what a microscopic impact this has on anything at all.

[polyphonica]

Wait, what? The penalty is only 30 minutes? I thought if they got 3 strikes, they were basically banned from DF for 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, that is not nearly as harsh as I thought it was. But on the other hand, it just highlights what a microscopic impact this has on anything at all.

The impact is to prevent repeat offenders from essentially trolling the duty finder queue. The biggest impact, outside of people who were fishing, is mostly that it's going to make people more socially aware. If people understand there can be a punishment for something, they're less likely to do it for that reason alone. I would say that it has actually had a material impact on reducing queue failures in my experience, but it's not going to be night-and-day at a personal level. It's a subtle shift, not a land-slide.

(The main people I've seen who find it less than subtle are those who end up with the penalty because someone else in their party withdraws, which is a problem from the queue system perspective, but perhaps the punishment seems a bit unfair if there was not much/anything you could have done to prevent it. But that's also why the punishment wasn't designed to be so very overwhelming; more of an annoyance.)

[Felessan]

If you or your a party member can't click in on time because you forget to use /readycheck, 30 min reprimand! Or because you changed class to participate and hunt or battle... or because you forgot to deselect a previous duty... the controllers dies, the call of nature, a crying baby, a misbehaving pet or any other one of the things that happen in life, regardless if it's your life or a party member...

A lot of people were fishing for instance, and this fix is limiting them in the ability to do so.
For everything else... you have a whole minute to click on Commence, that is enough in most situations if you actually paying attention that you are in duty finder.

I'm not convinced that the DF lockout is working. In theory, it is meant to lessen wait time in DF queues.

It was done to prevent deliberate clicking on withdraw button for self-benefit, as it was annoying as hell. As people who naturally have short queue time (i.e. tanks and healers) just fish for party in progress as it saves them a lot of time.

Ten minutes? Is that how long you think a DF queue is? For DPS, you can expect to be waiting for anywhere from half an hour to an hour, or more. I have had more than one occasion, leveling my NIN, where the queue exceeded 75 minutes.

Expert is usually no longer than 15 mins and High is less than 20. The only long one is low level roulette due to the number of Nin leveling up, so I would recommend to avoid it if possible.

[EricCartmenez]

Wait, what? The penalty is only 30 minutes? I thought if they got 3 strikes, they were basically banned from DF for 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, that is not nearly as harsh as I thought it was. But on the other hand, it just highlights what a microscopic impact this has on anything at all.

No, it's a 30 min wait. I know, because this happened to one of our FC mates who wasn't paying attention to his queues while he leveled a PUG/MNK. The reset happens at a certain time every day or after you miss 3 queues. So you wait 30 mins and you can miss 3 more queues or if you time it right, you can miss 6. This is not the BFD everyone is making it out to be.

[Ashkendor]

Wait, what? The penalty is only 30 minutes? I thought if they got 3 strikes, they were basically banned from DF for 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, that is not nearly as harsh as I thought it was. But on the other hand, it just highlights what a microscopic impact this has on anything at all.

No, you are only locked out from the DF for 30 minutes. Your 3 strikes reset every game day, though.

No, it's a 30 min wait. I know, because this happened to one of our FC mates who wasn't paying attention to his queues while he leveled a PUG/MNK. The reset happens at a certain time every day or after you miss 3 queues. So you wait 30 mins and you can miss 3 more queues or if you time it right, you can miss 6. This is not the BFD everyone is making it out to be.

It doesn't reset after you miss 3 queues. Each successive miss results in a 30 minute penalty.

[Laraul]

The incident that disturbed me was when I queued as PLD, saw a hunt near by, switched to BRD to participate and shortly after engaging the duty finder window popped. But I couldn't click in because I was the wrong class and it wouldn't let me change back. I kept moving farther and farther from the battle but it simply would not let me change back to PLD. Finally with two seconds to spare, it let me change back and I clicked in. But the whole experience was beyond agitating.

If I had been in a party, everyone would have suffered for my mistake. Why should my actions impact others in such a negative way?

If the purpose is to stop "trolls" then why is it just three a day? Why not something like ten a day? Ten is high enough that it would impact abusers but not impact normal players. Three is just too little.

[NyarukoW]

...
saw a hunt near by, switched to BRD to participate ...
If I had been in a party, everyone would have suffered for my mistake. Why should my actions impact others in such a negative way?
....

What are you doing trying to do hunts while waiting on the queue? You can not get full credit by yourself solo. This just a made up case. And if you are in a hunt party, you will not be queuing on the DF. This is nonsense, and you queue everyone if your hunt party on the DF, you are trolling them, and they will get mad at you.