Consolidated thread of DoH suggestions - post 2.4

[Sibyll]

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That's why I said "new" recipes. As in future recipes added later on. I agree it would be stupid to go back and redo everything.

Similar to how certain Synths say "Hiqh-Quality Unavailable" for housing items or "Aspect: Earth" for certain recipes you could have a designator that says "Cross Class Skills Unavailable" for certain higher level crafts. These crafts would be designed with each specific craft in mind and the specific skills that the specific class has available in mind.

Remember that some of the housing items are balanced around the idea that you can't HQ them and are given absurd progress bars to make PbP be completely required to do them. All of the crafting classes more or less have a theme associated with them: Alchemy is all about CP, Carpentry is about Inner Quiet Stacks, Armorsmith is about taking big chunks out of the progress bar etc. I don't see why it's so difficult to grasp that Alchemy recipes would be balanced around the skills they have available to them, because only an Alchemist can attempt the recipes.

Honestly, I think the system needs a complete overhaul. The crafting system is becoming more and more like a gimmicky WoW crafting system. There are a lot of people that play the game just to craft, and are quite disappointed that SE is treating the crafting system like a time sink for DoW/DoMs rather than as it's own entity. Gearing crafters is becoming arguable more difficult than gearing a DoW/DoM class for all the wrong reasons.

You seem content with crafting being a secondary thought just like most MMOs treat it, I'd like to see it be something more. I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[RiceisNice]

I don't see why it's so difficult to grasp that Alchemy recipes would be balanced around the skills they have available to them...

You seem content with crafting being a secondary thought just like most MMOs treat it, I'd like to see it be something more. I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

The thing is, the way it is now it's hard to do so without redoing the class abilities themselves instead of the recipes. How does alchemy work on getting that CP? CZ works on prolonging the craft with TotT and durability restoration, which requires RNGjeesus to be merciful with good conditions. CRP works off IQ stacks, but they can't spare the CP to build it up because they are limited by durability and CP since they can't hasty touch. Weaver has nothing going for it except guaranteed synthesis, which can be done with SH+basic synthesis by other classes, the list goes on.

The biggest gate to this is CP for most classes in order to use their skills effectively yet maintain the concept of crafting (unless we do away with HQ and quality, something I'd also be against) because the majority of it will be spent on durability restoration and quality increase.

Yeah, quite frankly that's how I'd see crafting and gathering in a typical mmo game. It exists to make equipment and consumables for other aspects of the game, and I like how they handled the crafting aspect of it instead of being a straight up stare-at-progress-bar that most games do. Though I can agree that I don't like how they handled 4* star crafting, in regards to gating the recipe books themselves by RNG and the materials by beast tribe and more RNG.

[Sibyll]

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They most certainly would need to revisit skills. Some of the crafting skills are just down right useless. Flawless synthesis, Rumination, Careful Synthesis I (after you've gotten II), Basic Touch (once you get Careful Synthesis II) etc. Other skills are just too good: Byregot's is required to do anything, Comfort Zone is literally free CP, Steady Hand II/Hasty Touch are also required. The following point extends to combat classes as well: Cross Class skills cease to offer diversity and choice when they are required to do anything end-game related. If you are going to design it this way then you might as well just give the class the skills in the first place.

Also, Basic Synthesis+Steady Hand I costs 22 CP, Careful Synthesis I/II are both free (in the case of II it's also better than a Basic touch which is quite idiotic balance).

I don't want them to do away with HQing, but I'd like to see this expanded upon. I'm glad that recent progress in the crafting system has made HQ base materials much more valuable now that 100% HQ from NQ mats isn't really possible.

It was obvious that's how you view crafting; most MMOs treat it like that and that's fine. I, and I'm sure many people who enjoy crafting, would like to see it be treated as a more integral part of the game. SWG is an example of a game that did exactly that.

[RiceisNice]

I don't want them to do way with HQing, but I'd like to see this expanded upon. I'm glad that recent progress in the crafting system has made HQ base materials much more valuable now that 100% HQ from NQ mats isn't really possible.

The thing is, this is possible because you've maxed out your stats at that point from tools, melds and getting everyything to 50. You should be able to easily get HQ with little to no HQ mats. However, a lot of the 4* crafting recipes (specifically the artisan/forager series) have it that even if you use HQ when possible, you're up to RNG to make have a higher than 70% HQ chance at the end, even with optimum melds and equips.

[Sibyll]

The thing is, this is possible because you've maxed out your stats at that point from tools, melds and getting everyything to 50. You should be able to easily get HQ with little to no HQ mats. However, a lot of the 4* crafting recipes (specifically the artisan/forager series) have it that even if you use HQ when possible, you're up to RNG to make have a higher than 70% HQ chance at the end, even with optimum melds and equips.

I should've clarified. I was referring to 2.0 when you could HQ the 80 durability 2* recipes with NQ mats. The joke was that the 2* 40 durability mats (Darksteel Ingots) were far more difficult to HQ consistently, even with HQ mats because of 9 cokes involved. However, this didn't matter because the additional durability and the ridiculousness of Hasty Touch spam + Byregot's made the 80 durability 2*s are real joke to HQ.

[RiceisNice]

...

Isn't that pretty much falling into the whole RNG business; trying to HQ a 80 durability item without any NQ materials via HT + BB, even with SHII. I'm assuming that 2.0, the best you could get was the crafted set in HQ + militia offhand. You're practically in relevant gear for 2* crafting at that point. You're also looking at star alignment if you're getting 7+ successful HTs in a single craft. Not to mention the gear set up at the time, they'd still have access to the crafted set and milltia offhand, no? I'm missing a bit of context on whether or not they were geared at that point when you gave that example.

[Sibyll]

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Accessories overmelded and base melds for other gear (i55), which I would say is the reasonable entry level requirement for end-game crafting at the time. It was pretty easy to HQ 2* crafts because of Hasty Touch and BB, even with less than 7 Inner Quiet stacks. The game relies heavily on the player maxing all the other crafting classes to be at all relevant, and in that regard I think it's significantly worse than any other MMO crafting system. If they are going to treat crafting like secondary content then just do the WoW crafting style where you only need to level the two crafts you want. They are throwing so much pointless grinding in front of the players that they are driving away the player base that plays for the crafting.

Mastercraft Demimateria, Master Books, Sealants, Desynthesis. These grinds are atrocious compared to any coil raid.