Punished by the game for being a Dragoon. (Magic defense and 2.4)

[Atomnium]

I'm not saying your raid is bad, because that's awesome that you guys are in final coil! But just like having all ranged dps, having two scholars comes with its positives and negatives. Dragoons have always had low magic defense, it was never a problem until recently. I only remember one other thread during Garuda Extreme, that's about it :/

No offenses but I really wish people could go further than the typical blame game playing double scholar shouldn't have any impact on the dragoon, it's a simple matter of critical job balance, our team is actually respecting the trinity system "2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps".

Not only garuda ex btw, Nael in t9 was a serious issue for dragoons with mega-flare (it was only one single attack for the whole coil but was still a worrying problem).

As a terrible exemple, if the next healer in 3.0 doesn't have any "equal" sort of magic defense buffs like the whm have right now... I leave to your imagination what recruitments for endgame communities will look like if dragoon doesn't get an emergency fix on their magic defenses :/
Something like : "heavensward-endgame-content-fc looking for a melee dps (no loldragoons!)"

[Ryel]

No offenses but I really wish people could go further than the typical blame game playing double scholar shouldn't have any impact on the dragoon, it's a simple matter of critical job balance, our team is actually respecting the trinity system "2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps".

As a terrible exemple, if the next healer in 3.0 doesn't have any "equal" sort of magic defense buffs like the whm have right now... I leave to your imagination what recruitments for endgame communities will look like if dragoon doesn't get an emergency fix on their magic defenses :/
Something like : "heavensward-endgame-content-fc looking for a melee dps (no loldragoons!)"

Essentially this ^

No single job should require an "optimal" party setup to survive on their own merit, whether the party contains 2 SCH, 2 WHM, or a solitary healer should have ZERO effect on the Dragoon's native survivability especially considering this is NOT the case for any other job.

Add to this the fact that there are only 2 Healing jobs available in the game currently, it's not even that uncommon to see groups running 2 SCH or 2 WHM if for no other reason than the lack of an available alternative.

Dragoon should not be penalized for a party attempting to be flexible in it's composition.

As the example given, if the next healer released doesn't have a form of Magic Damage mitigation is Dragoon only going to be viable in parties that specifically have a White Mage as a healer? That condition alone would be enough to bar them from almost all endgame content in favor of another DPS (remember no other DPS has this problem currently) if a party cannot meet that criteria.

Lets not act like this isn't an issue.

[RyuDragnier]

No offenses but I really wish people could go further than the typical blame game playing double scholar shouldn't have any impact on the dragoon, it's a simple matter of critical job balance, our team is actually respecting the trinity system "2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps".

I wish it were that simple, but unfortunately a WHM's Protect is far better htan a SCH's due to the 20% Mag Def boost, which would have knocked down the damage the DRG took significantly. Add the stronger Stoneskin in, and unfortunately you need a WHM or that DRG will not be surviving Final Coil. Sadly as we've all learned, we need BOTH kinds of tank and healer classes in any raid party for the increased damage mitigation tools, and I don't think that will be changing in the near future.

[Ryel]

I wish it were that simple, but unfortunately a WHM's Protect is far better htan a SCH's due to the 20% Mag Def boost, which would have knocked down the damage the DRG took significantly. Add the stronger Stoneskin in, and unfortunately you need a WHM or that DRG will not be surviving Final Coil. Sadly as we've all learned, we need BOTH kinds of tank and healer classes in any raid party for the increased damage mitigation tools, and I don't think that will be changing in the near future.

That isn't an acceptable reason balance-wise, and it very much IS that simple.

You say that the game requires us to use BOTH healers and BOTH tanks, yet you forget that 3.0 is adding another healer and tank to the equation, the question then becomes:

What happens when there are 3 available healers?

If only 1 out of 3 Healers can provide a level of Magic Defense that enables Dragoon to survive in endgame content this becomes a problem if Dragoons are ONLY viable in parties with that specific healer. It would be much easier on the playerbase as a whole to simply not worry about it and pick one of the other DPS that are not only outperforming Dragoon damage wise but also offering superior raid utility, and now in addition superior survivability unless a specific composition is met.

A job has to be able to perform equally on it's own merits to be considered viable, having to cater your composition around the job for inferior results only ends up with players choosing something more flexible to run with.

[RyuDragnier]

That isn't an acceptable reason balance-wise, and it very much IS that simple.

You say that the game requires us to use BOTH healers and BOTH tanks, yet you forget that 3.0 is adding another healer and tank to the equation, the question then becomes:

What happens when there are 3 available healers?

If only 1 out of 3 Healers can provide a level of Magic Defense that enables Dragoon to survive in endgame content this becomes a problem if Dragoons are ONLY viable in parties with that specific healer. It would be much easier on the playerbase as a whole to simply not worry about it and pick one of the other DPS that are not only outperforming Dragoon damage wise but also offering superior raid utility, and now in addition superior survivability unless a specific composition is met.

A job has to be able to perform equally on it's own merits to be considered viable, having to cater your composition around the job for inferior results only ends up with players choosing something more flexible to run with.

Which is why one of the things I agree with is that DRG needs a Mag Def boost, at least to other melee DPS standards. That alone fixes the problem. But right now, the ONLY time the Mag Def problem is coming into play right now is with double SCH. Until they buff DRG mag def though, you have to use WHM for their Protect instead of double SCH, I don't know how else to break that to you, because they did say buffs were coming. Wait for them sir, wait for them.

[Ryel]

Which is why one of the things I agree with is that DRG needs a Mag Def boost, at least to other melee DPS standards. That alone fixes the problem. But right now, the ONLY time the Mag Def problem is coming into play right now is with double SCH. Until they buff DRG mag def though, you have to use WHM for their Protect instead of double SCH, I don't know how else to break that to you, because they did say buffs were coming. Wait for them sir, wait for them.

And it's fine that they are being adjusted, i agree completely with this.

The point i was trying to get across was more to the comments being made that the problem is that the party didn't have a White Mage as opposed to recognizing that there is an issue (one hopefully being fixed with the upcoming adjustments) of every DPS except Dragoon being viable in a 2 Scholar party in fights with heavy Magic Damage, and like i said i agree with your last comment addressing this.

Honestly as long as the 2,2,4 Composition is met (for current endgame) it really shouldn't matter what DPS you take in (barring the LB bar nerf which is fine) the fact that Dragoon needs 2, WHM, 1, 4 is an issue we shouldn't be responding to with "Welp, sadly you should have taken a White Mage" but rather "Wow, maybe something is wrong here"

[Atomnium]

Thanks for your feedbacks guys, on a side note Ryel, I added one of your replies to the OP thread.